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AIBU?

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Original poster

to want to divorce the Scots

189 replies

palanca · 17/10/2016 10:00

Honestly, I have 3 BFs who are Scottish and I love the place but I am heartily sick of being threatened with another independence referendum - clearly this is just going to be repeated ad infinitum

It seems pretty clear that most Scots do not want to remain in the UK so I wish that they would just go rather than holding the sword of Damocles over the heads of everyone else in the UK. If there were a UK wide referendum on Scotland remaining in the UK, whilst ideally I'd love them to stay, I am afraid I would certainly vote for Spexit and let them get on with it rather than having to listen to the constant whinging ....

OP posts:
Smartleatherbag · 17/10/2016 11:37

MrsJ, yes, I don't like her but I admire Sturgeon as a successful woman. Salmond was and is a vain glorious arse.

Original poster
palanca · 17/10/2016 11:37

I do not read the Daily Mail. I am in London. Short of moving to North Korea I do not think I could avoid the news of the fact that there is legislation afoot for a new Scottish referendum! It is totally naive for anyone to think that this does not have an impact on those of us not living in Scotland....It is a two fingers. End of.
As for Nicola Sturgeon, I honestly think that she is the most brilliant and articulate politician possibly globally at the moment - just a shame I do not agree with her! I would much rather have her on the side of a united UK but it seems it is not to be ...
My comment about being "shouty" is re the SNP and their supporters, not her. She is measured machiavellian and a class above Alex Salmond or anyone else currently in UK politics IMHO.

OP posts:
Original poster
palanca · 17/10/2016 11:38

I do not disagree that I am being goady - but isn't the decision to have further legislation for a second referendum also goady?!

OP posts:
Smartleatherbag · 17/10/2016 11:42

The legislation is meaningless, beyond being a tool to keep nationalists happy. It won't be approved by both governments. Sturgeon knows this. It's a game. I am honestly not worried about it, just furious at resurgent nationalism all over our country and the whole of Europe.

RabbitsNap01 · 17/10/2016 11:42

because they're only in the EU under the auspices of being in the UK, that's why they have to leave, and whether people protest vote for independence due to Brexit, that only means that Scotland can petition the EU for membership once it is independent, with an uncertain outcome. What will be certain in that scenario is that Scotland won't have the RUK back-up.

Aderyn2016 · 17/10/2016 11:43

I always saw the EU ref as inevitable and feel that part of the reason Labour lost was because they refused to ask the question, but yes, the gen elec could have gone the other way. Even so, if people vote for a union, they are agreeing to follow whatever result the majority of people in the union vote for. It doesn't make a difference where that majority lives within the union.

Clandestino · 17/10/2016 11:44

Can I just ask a very ungoady but really curious question. Literally.
Why is the idea of Scottish independence such an insult to the English? Why can't Scotland be independent? Or any country, for that matter.
In the end, UK and even Great Britain are essentially artificial creations, with nations united by sword rather than mutual love and understanding. I know that the first referendum failed but with the circumstances changed (Brexit) why can't there be another one? Why would it be so negative for an English person to wake up and realise that I don't know, Edinburgh is now a town in a different country? Would you be feeling like, OMG, now I can never visit it?

I just don't get the negativity so I'm looking for a rational explanation.

MrsJayy · 17/10/2016 11:44

Well Theresa's hard Brexit is also Goady i think Scotlands first minister is trying to protect her country

RabbitsNap01 · 17/10/2016 11:44

yes, in all honesty, I hate Sturgeon's views but I admire her relentlessness, stridency, and ability to never miss a populist soundbite opportunity. I wish labour had talent to match her.

Aderyn2016 · 17/10/2016 11:52

Clandestino, I guess it is the same as when someone wants to end a personal with you. You can absolutely support their right to do so and logically recognise that you are both headed in different directions but it still feels a bit personal and hurtful. No one wants to get dumped, even in relationships that you recognise aren't happy

MrsJayy · 17/10/2016 11:52

She is relentless and passionate I think some people think she just bangs on about independence all the time she doesn't she is a leader of a country we have other things going on, yes she might have another indyref loitering i n the background and she might trigger it but there is more to Scotland than indyref.

90sChild · 17/10/2016 11:52

Freeeeeeeeedom.

I'm kidding,I'm Scottish but I really could care less Grin

Aderyn2016 · 17/10/2016 11:52

Should say personal relationship

AGenie · 17/10/2016 11:54

Nope.

The Scots don't want independence.

They just don't want the Westminster government making endless bad decisions without consulting them.

Clandestino · 17/10/2016 11:58

Clandestino, I guess it is the same as when someone wants to end a personal with you. You can absolutely support their right to do so and logically recognise that you are both headed in different directions but it still feels a bit personal and hurtful. No one wants to get dumped, even in relationships that you recognise aren't happy.

Thank you, that may well be true and it also explains the throwing the toys out of the pram reactions.

IMHO, every nation should be able to exercise their right to independence.

Happyhippy45 · 17/10/2016 12:00

That pretty much sums up how I feel agenie

SoupDragon · 17/10/2016 12:02

Why are people saying Scotland voted to stay in the EU? They didn't, they contributed to the UK wide vote and any attempt to split the result up into areas is pointless.

DoloresVanCartier · 17/10/2016 12:05

Oh OP, I'm sure I heard this somewhere in a very documentary style, true to actual events movie once Wink
"The trouble with Scotland is that it's full of Scots"

I'd suggest you find yourself new friends. I'm not even sure why Scottish people living in England are banging on at you constantly about wanting to leave, haven't they effectively already done that by moving out of Scotland?!?

There may be voices of unrest and the prospect of a second referendum, but if I may refresh your memory, the majority of Scots chose to STAY in the U.K.

Divorce away if you wish.

I have 3 English friends who keep banging on at me about how Scotland should F off and be divorced from England, that means the majority of England MUST want this. Grin

DoloresVanCartier · 17/10/2016 12:07

Soupdragon - I see what you are saying that Scotland contributed to the whole vote, but it's fact that as a result of the voting the entire nation of Scotland had voted in.

LagunaBubbles · 17/10/2016 12:09

Rather the opposite that on an emotional level I am I supposed hurt that many of them appear to hate the rest of the UK

I voted yes and will do again if and when there is another referendum, not because of "hating the English" but for lots of other reasons Im not really going to go into, because there is endless threads already about opposing views on Scottish Independence.

KayTee87 · 17/10/2016 12:13

Well we had a referendum that said the majority of us want to remain part of the uk. Yes the pro Indys are quite shouty - how do you think pro U.K. People in Scotland feel?
Thanks for your support anyway, it's nice to know we're wanted Hmm I campaigned hard before the last referendum and lost a few friends because of it.

wibblewobble8 · 17/10/2016 12:16

Scottish Independence will never go away because although it lost by a minority vote, the reality is that it lost by a bawhair so to speak, 5% is all that is needed to swing the vote. Those in favour of Scottish independence are not a few rabid racists on the fringes of society (despite what the dm would have you believe) but in fact make near enough half the population, come from all walks of life and who will always push for it, possibly until they get it. I dont understand the equation of wanting the audacity to run our own affairs/dont want English MPs who have no interest in Scotland deciding our fate = Scotland hates England. But god forbid when an SNP MP votes on something that affects England, they are practically crucified in the press for interfering in affairs that dont concern them (even though those decisions will have an after effect in Scotland) and screams for England to have its parliament!

unlucky83 · 17/10/2016 12:25

I agree Soup
And I know a looming indyref 2 influence how people in Scotland voted in the EU referendum - there were threads on here about it - the best way to vote to avoid another referendum.
I voted Brexit in the end cos I think the EU needed a shake up -it was a conviction vote ...but in the voting booth I hesitated. Knowing if the result went the way it did it (Brexit with the majority in Scotland voting remain) Indy2 would be back on the table again. I nearly voted remain to avoid that - and as I said mine was a conviction vote - if I had been less convinced I would have voted remain. Choosing the lesser evil .

Also Brexit in rUK was popular in 'traditional labour areas' - in Scotland it seems remain was popular in those areas - the same areas with a strong Yes vote in the last indy ref.
I don't think Scotland could thrive outside the UK and outside the EU - therefore for independence the SNP needs Scotland to remain in the EU -hence their support for remain...

The last referendum was very divisive ...people really don't want to go through that again.
As for the SNP not being 'traditional nationalists' - give me a break. What is the difference between the more extreme members telling people to 'fuck off back to England' and the same elements in the BNP telling ethnic minorities the same 'fuck off back where you came from'....
I'm sure it isn't a reflection of every member of the SNP (actually it probably won't be true for every member of the BNP) but the SNP does give those bigots a platform to express those views.

Oldbutstillgotit · 17/10/2016 12:37

OP this is exactly the kind of comment that plays into the SNP hands as it creates even more divisions between us Scots and people south of the border. Stop. More than 2 million of us voted ( after a loooooong campaign) to stay part of the U.K and , despite the rhetoric you may be hearing, there has been no seismic shift of opinion up here. I know of no- one who voted No who now says they will vote Yes however I am aware of several people who are seriously disappointed with the current Scottish Government and who will vote No when/ if Indyref2 happens. The SG has a lot of powers and needs to start using them rather than constantly whinging about " wicked Westminster " and threatening another costly, divisive referendum that the majority of Scots do not want!

LagunaBubbles · 17/10/2016 12:41

Well we had a referendum that said the majority of us want to remain part of the uk. Yes the pro Indys are quite shouty

A bit of a generalisation there, I voted Yes and am not in the least bit "shouty". I am however allowed a vote, just like everyone else in Scotland, both in elections and any future possible referendums. Of course the possibility of one wont go away, Im amazed at the constant almost shock horror expressed, that somehow the SNP want another one - they have mandate for independence , so its not a secret! And they form the Scottish Government.