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To think the Ched Evans verdict shows why mob justice is wrong

864 replies

JonathanDunn · 14/10/2016 17:10

Hundreds of thousands of people were willing Condemn a innocent man. He was practically forced out of football. This is why we can't play jury from our sofas.

OP posts:
gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 10:09

pinky the blog site you linked to explains that the law was followed regarding the fresh evidence and the past sexual experiences of victims in the vast majority of rape cases is still inadmissible.

The writer suggests that inaccurately suggesting otherwise (ie suggesting that women will now not have the same protection regarding past experiences) is needlessly discouraging future victims from coming forward because the strict conditions that apply to this type of evidence are rarely meet but were here. There has been no precedent set.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 10:10

Rarely met

user1476521108 · 15/10/2016 10:10

we don't live in a rape culture though

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:13

Which but of my post was harsh reveal (not being goady but didn't think I'd been harsh to anyone!). I have the COS link somewhere to the original case I will post it's an interesting read!

Felas I think I will follow suit and do the same.

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:15

we don't live in a rape culture though
Hahahaha!!!
Funniest comment ever on MN
Hmm

MrsHathaway · 15/10/2016 10:15

we don't live in a rape culture though

And at that, I'm out.

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 10:16

Not read the full thread.
Ched Evans has been found not guilty of rape. He brought evidence to show that the girl in question behaved similarly sexually with him as with men she slept with consensually in the days and weeks before and afterwards. That evidence was accepted by the jury.

Was it fair that originally ched was found guilty but another footballer who had sex with her minutes before was not? Of course not - there are huge issues with the original jury finding she was too drunk to consent and yet only one of her sexual partners found guilty of rape. That's why the appeal won. It smacks of the jury finding the one who 'joined in' guilty because they found it distasteful. Sexually distasteful behaviour is not illegal and has made the 50shades woman rather rich.

I don't think either footballer covered themselves in glory that night but on the evidence it doesn't look like rape. She was walking (cctv showed quite normally on entering hotel) and talking and able to direct sexual events. Are men now expected to make women walk the line or do a breathalyser test before sleeping with them? Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous? We'll never know.

I am female. I am in the law. I am hugely concerned about the stats on successful rape trials which are woefully low. But if you get drunk and go to a hotel room with a footballer and have consensual sex but don't remember, that is not rape. It depends on the evidence, and the evidence suggested she was willing. The jury agreed.

She no doubt regrets her decision to report the incident now her sexual history is everywhere and people know who she is because her name was published. But if they are not guilty of rape but just guilty of being dickheads, do those footballers deserve to lose their livelihoods too? Permanently lose their reputations and ability to work for sexually stupid behaviour when young and idolised and as in need of guidance as any other young person? I genuinely don't think so.

I think this case shows the need for anonymity of both sides in sexual assault cases. If the jury hadn't known the case involved footballers, I doubt ched would have been convicted in the first place.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:17

You know that hide-poster suggestion. I'd like to build on that with a "hide anyone who hasn't got a username and blatantly signed up to troll" option.

intheknickersoftime · 15/10/2016 10:18

Please rtft

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:18

1 in 10 women in the UK are victims of rape or sexual violence every year. How the fucking hell is that not a culture?

gone I hope you're right about no legal precedent set but sadly I don't see how this won't affect (even just a few) victims coming forward Sad

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:19

"She no doubt regrets her decision to report the incident"

She. Reported. A. Stolen. Handbag.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:19

"I think this case shows the need for anonymity of both sides in sexual assault cases. If the jury hadn't known the case involved footballers, I doubt ched would have been convicted in the first place."

Now that I agree with, but I doubt for the same reasons as you.

JellyBelli · 15/10/2016 10:20

Grumpyaboutchristmas
He never spoke to her.
He got the key to her room without her knowledge and conent.
HShe did not give or deny consent, they never spoke.
She did not go to the room with him.

TrippyMcTrapFace · 15/10/2016 10:20

Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous? We'll never know.

Can someone tell Grumpy, who is btw 'in the law' but who hasn't bothered to know the details in this case, the facts please? I'm fed up of repeating myself.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:20

(Only meant to c&p the second bit. I do not believe in anonymity for defendants)

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:24

I think this case shows the need for anonymity of both sides in sexual assault cases.

Why? No other crimes carry anonymity for defendants, why would rape be any different? There is NO evidence that being accused of rape is any more distressing for a man than being accused of any other crime. And the false accusations in case of rape, despite misogynistic myths, are actually lower than average than other crimes. So, given your "legal" opinion, what would be the case for keeping those accused of rape anonymous?

Answer = because we live in a patriarchy and rape culture where people feel more sorry for rapists than their victims and refuse to see as a society just how dangerous men are

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:24

Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous? We'll never know.

She. Didn't. Allege. Rape!!

ElleBellyBeeblebrox · 15/10/2016 10:25

Still guilty as fuck in my eyes. Disgusting pig, and some of the views shared in Twitter and other forums in recent days is grim reading. My thoughts are with the woman and her family, and the thousands of other women who have been in similar situations.

Wdigin2this · 15/10/2016 10:26

As long as men have penis' and women don't....rape will continue!
And as for innocent due to new evidence, depends on your version of both. Rape: He had sex with a practically comatose woman, too drunk to know what was happening, then pissed off out the window??
New Evidence: Said woman had previously enjoyed drunken sex??
Do me a bloody favour!

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 10:28

Why anonymity? Because whoever said because wrongly accused of rape isn't worse than being wrongly accused of, say, burglary, is clearly not living in the real world. Try telling that to Clayton McDonald.

ZuleikaDobson · 15/10/2016 10:28

Was it fair that originally ched was found guilty but another footballer who had sex with her minutes before was not? Of course not - there are huge issues with the original jury finding she was too drunk to consent and yet only one of her sexual partners found guilty of rape

No "Of course" about it. It was perfectly possible for the jury to accept that: (1) It was possible that McDonald reasonably believed that the victim was consenting, based on the fact that he had been with her for some time and she was possibly less affected by drink initially; but (2) Evans, who had not spent any time with her and said he didn't speak to her, could not have reasonably believed she was consenting.

Wdigin2this · 15/10/2016 10:31

Ellybelly I agree wth your opinion of this idiot, but I think the point has to be made....women, pleeeease don't get so slaughtered, on a night out, that you don't know what's happening to you! Yes I bloody know that doesn't excuse rape but surely to God we all know the dangers out there well enough to protect ourselves?! Keep the getting trolleyed with the girls, for when you're in a safe environment!

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:32
  1. She woke up, having pissed the bed in the hotel room, naked and minus her handbag
  2. She reports lost/stolen handbag to police who, on hearing that she woke up naked and unable to remember anything, processed her for potential rape
  3. They looked into it and found the McDonald had booked the room and cctv had her there along with mcdonald. Questioning etc shows that Evans was also there, he wangled a room key, entered, fucked, and left via the fire escape. He says he did not speak to her. Others are revealed to have filmed the act, without her knowledge.
  4. At trial Evans again says he did not speak to her, he asked McDonald if he could "have a go" (I can't remember if this is also the point where he says she said "fuck me harder" and it was published in the media). McDonald was cleared for rape as he had reasonable belief (as he had met her before the event) that she was consenting. Other info around filming is extraneous to this.
  5. Evans convicted and starts serving sentence.
  6. Evans appeal is fast tracked and £50k reward offered to anyone who can help provide evidence to get him off, by his girlfriends father
  7. Retrial. New evidence is that she said "fuck me harder" to previous boyfriends too. And claimed not to remember in the morning that they had even had sex. They say (to the media, the jury were not made aware of the reward) that they did not receive the £50k
  8. New testimony also says that actually Evans did not ask McDonald, he asked her and she agreed. How convenient.
  9. Evans found not guilty beyond reasonable doubt
Note, not found innocent, nor is it found that she is a liar.

I think that's pretty much it.

LellyMcKelly · 15/10/2016 10:32

He's filthy scum who sneaked into a hotel room, used a very drunk teenager like a piece of meat, cheated on his girlfriend, and sneaked out a fire exit. He's hardly a role model. Just looking at him turns my stomach.

JellyBelli · 15/10/2016 10:34

TrippyMcTrapFace
Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous? We'll never know.

We do know as its right there in the details; she never alleged rape. she went to the police to report her handbag missing they decided on her statement that she had been raped.

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