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To think the Ched Evans verdict shows why mob justice is wrong

864 replies

JonathanDunn · 14/10/2016 17:10

Hundreds of thousands of people were willing Condemn a innocent man. He was practically forced out of football. This is why we can't play jury from our sofas.

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 20:28

Do you know on what grounds they admitted the sexual history evidence? Not in any identifying or distressing detail, but roughly what reasoning they used? I'm sick of having pompous lawyer types claiming it never happens and when it does it's all perfectly relevant and justifiable.

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 20:30

I've started a thread about sexual history evidence restrictions on feminism chat, it has some useful links.

TheWoodlander · 20/10/2016 20:35

I believe it was because they had been in a relationship. But I'm not sure - because they dredged up stuff before that too.

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 21:04

I'm sure they dredged up anything they could in the name of "justice".

PortiaCastis · 20/10/2016 21:24

Thats why I didn't go to the police

Isitadoubleentendre · 20/10/2016 21:36

I have a question about the false accusation statistic. I have seen it is estinated at 3-8%, but can anyone tell me where this stat comes from abd how they come to it? Is it just accustations that they know are definitely false because its been proven in court or it has been admitted to? Part of the problem with getting a rape conviction is that its so often one persons word against another, even if yoy factor out all the deeply ingrained misogyny, so is possible that some of the 'dont know' cases are false accusations as well? Does this come into that statistic? How do they know?

I promise im not being goady, its just that when this subject comes and i mention the low false accusation rate thing, the above question is asked and i dont really knkw how to respond?

Isitadoubleentendre · 20/10/2016 21:38

Christ, please ignore my typos, my phone is being an arsehole!

Isitadoubleentendre · 20/10/2016 21:40

I meant to say when the subject comes up in real life

PortiaCastis · 20/10/2016 21:44

Found this on wiki so realise that it may not be 100% but quite informative

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Isitadoubleentendre · 20/10/2016 21:57

Ok, so that stat is just prosecuted false allegations, the actual number could be higher.

This though
It showed that in 35 cases authorities prosecuted a person for making a false allegation, while they brought 5,651 prosecutions for rape
shows quite clearly that the amount of focus on false allegations is still way disproportionate, even if you are just taking prosecuted cases.

Interesting as well that many are from young vulnerable women who have often had other crimes committed against them at some point.

PortiaCastis · 20/10/2016 22:06

Quite
I didn't report and there's a thread on here with the title why I didn't report
I didnt because I couldn't face court dragging me through the dirt

HillaryFTW · 20/10/2016 23:11

3-8% is the general false reporting rate for crimes (burglary, assault etc), IIRC. There's no reason to believe rape falls outwith those bounds. Logically, falsely reporting a burglary would be more common as it goes with a fraudulent insurance claim.

AskBasil · 21/10/2016 00:58

Baroness Stern did a bit more research on false rape allegations and concluded that false rape allegations are lower than false allegations of other crimes. So that 8% figure is likely to be enormously inflated.

The idea that rape is a crime women are more likely to lie about than most people are to lie about most other crimes, has never had any basis in fact or reality. That's the dismaying thing about it. When you first start looking at this, you cannot believe that the lie that women lie about rape, is so firmly entrenched in our culture without some good reason. The only reason, is literally male supremacy. The lie was invented and believed because women were believed to be less reliable, less rational and generally less morally upstanding than men. And men controlled the courts and legal process.

The only real research that was done to back up the "women are liars" myth, was to look at police reports to find out how many false reports the police were receiving. There were a couple of these studies which were used to confirm the widespread opinion that women are liars, because the results showed that something like 40% of rape reports were false. The reason the figure was so high, was purely and simply because the police men who logged the reports, believed that women were liars about rape and didn't bother to investigate whether the women were actually raped. They just instantly dismissed their claims as false and their opinion became researched fact.

And of course, male-led research didn't think to question mysogynistic assumptions about rape and women.

And these studies were used to provide data to back up the misogynist lie that women lie about rape. What we know, is that actually, men lie about rape. A lot. A whole lot more than women do.

HillaryFTW · 21/10/2016 07:04

Thanks, Basil.

PortiaCastis · 21/10/2016 10:50

Brilliant post Basil
Thank you

Memoires · 21/10/2016 12:31

The worst thing about all this is, is the assumption that women will lie, do lie, are lieing. Women. Not people, not men, women.

Marbleheadjohnson · 21/10/2016 12:34

Yes, the suggestion that any of the men involved (in this case or any other) could possibly be lying, when they have a whole lot more to gain, is just glossed over or met with incredulity.

Tarla · 21/10/2016 13:25

women were believed to be less reliable, less rational and generally less morally upstanding than men

Like the mamager at one of my previous jobs who referred to women as "snakes with tits".

PortiaCastis · 21/10/2016 13:33

I would like everyone to know that I e- mailed my MP voicing my extreme concerns about this debacle and I received a reply within an hour on Monday asking for my address which I gave.
This morning a letter arrived on HoC notepaper thanking me for my concerns and telling me my e-mail has been passed on to the Ministry of Justice and my MP will be in touch when he gets a response from them.
This along with donating feels like a tiny bit of help for the victim

Felascloak · 21/10/2016 14:42

Well done portia. That job is on my to do list as well should really get off mn

PortiaCastis · 21/10/2016 17:36

I felt quite proud when an enve!ope with HoC came through the letter box, amazed at any sort of reply really so just maybe someone will take notice of the female electorate.
The whole thing stinks !! I won't say what of but you can all guess

Marbleheadjohnson · 21/10/2016 17:54

That's encouraging, Portia. I want to write to my MP but I don't know what to say.

PortiaCastis · 21/10/2016 18:11

Marble I just said I was incensed at the verdict on Friday and went on to ask why a Complainants past sexual history was brought up in the High Court when the Plaintiffs conquests were not made public and how disgusted I was. Also said could he look into the matter with the utmost urgency as a young lady was being hounded from her Country
The PPS emailed me back within an hour. Get the feeling I'm not the only one they're dealing with.
I will fight for that poor girl. The whole thing is a travesty

Totallymyownperson · 31/10/2016 14:49

It's not just whether past sexual behaviour should b allowed but if the evidence those 2 men gave was reliable one changed their considerably from first time he gave evidence to second how can court of appeal allow it no matter what type of case it was I think the woman denied most of the things they said.

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