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Original poster

To think the Ched Evans verdict shows why mob justice is wrong

864 replies

JonathanDunn · 14/10/2016 17:10

Hundreds of thousands of people were willing Condemn a innocent man. He was practically forced out of football. This is why we can't play jury from our sofas.

OP posts:
Whizbang · 15/10/2016 10:34

I am so very pissed off and depressed at this outcome and the victim blaming bullshit and borderline bribery that has been allowed by the courts for the Evans side to put forward witnesses supportive of the fucker. Question for anyone with a legal background...is the court of appeal now the end of the line for this case or is there any further action that could be taken? Who can I write to? What can I do to express my absolute disgust that this scummy, teenager abusing footballer and his vile legal team have been allowed to use their financial advantage to obtain decidedly dodgy new evidence and to instigate a witch hunt against the victim, and that the legal system has supported them in this. This cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged....what can we do either via the court system or outside of it to protest the outcome??

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:36

Emphasis on #5
He was convicted based on his own testimony that he did not speak to her

Ps, Clayton McDonald wasn't "wrongly accused" he was found not guilty. Not the same.

Wdigin2this · 15/10/2016 10:38

Whizzbang sadly I think the answer is ....nothing anyone can now do! I'm just glad I'm not his gf!

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 10:41

The distinction some make between 'wrongly accused' and 'found not guilty' supports entirely my point about party anonymity. Sexual mud sticks and even though he was found not guilty in court, the kangaroo court of real life says he must be.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:41

I would put great deals of money on that, should he now ever rape his girlfriend, she 1000% will not report it.

TrippyMcTrapFace · 15/10/2016 10:41

Yes Jelly, I'm fully aware of that. I was referring to a post by Grumpy who clearly isn't aware.

ZuleikaDobson · 15/10/2016 10:43

She was walking (cctv showed quite normally on entering hotel) and talking and able to direct sexual events. Are men now expected to make women walk the line or do a breathalyser test before sleeping with them? Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous? We'll never know.

Wow, you've bought the Evans propaganda hook, line and sinker. For someone allegedly in the law you show a startling lack of awareness of the desirability of checking basic facts. The evidence was that she fell on the floor in the chip shop and on the way to the hotel, and stopped to pee. And she didn't allege rape.

But if they are not guilty of rape but just guilty of being dickheads, do those footballers deserve to lose their livelihoods too? Permanently lose their reputations and ability to work for sexually stupid behaviour when young and idolised and as in need of guidance as any other young person?

He was 22 and an adult in a job which gave him hefty financial rewards and put him in the public eye. There are plenty of young men in that position - whether through sports or otherwise - who have no difficulty in behaving sensibly. His behaviour was not that of a "dickhead" but of a sexually predatory man in the habit of taking advantage of women despite the fact that he had a steady girlfriend. If you take a job in which you will become a role model and a target for publicity, you need to accept that the massive advantages which that job accrues also come with some responsibilities, and if you aren't prepared to live up to those responsibilities then yes, you may well lose your career. That was the risk Evans took when he decided he fancied "having a go on" the drunk woman his mate had just picked up without bothering to talk to her before entering her. I really don't think football needs a man like that.

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:44

Why anonymity? Because whoever said because wrongly accused of rape isn't worse than being wrongly accused of, say, burglary, is clearly not living in the real world. Try telling that to Clayton McDonald.

A man who has gone on to have a successful career? Great example. Show me EVIDENCE please of why "falsely" accused of rape is worse than falsely accused of burglary.

I really hope you are not "in law"

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:47

In law / does the photocopying for a legal firm...

TrippyMcTrapFace · 15/10/2016 10:47

Grin Beyond

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:48

The distinction some make between 'wrongly accused' and 'found not guilty' supports entirely my point about party anonymity

It concerns me too for different reasons. If you really were "in law" you would know 'not guilty' DOES NOT = 'innocent'. I smell bullshit

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 10:49

Slightly off point but I have been with friends when very young who have fallen over when drunk and, yes, stopped to wee in the street, and been perfectly capable of consenting to sex. Doing one doesn't rule out the other.

Not succumbing to propaganda. Have had an issue with lack of anonymity in sexual assault cases since studying. Ched Evans aside, false accusations do happen and do ruin lives, saving even one of those makes sense.

Doesn't mean I don't think the rape laws and trial process don't need mass overhaul. They do. But I can (and as a lawyer, should be able to) see both sides.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:50

This verdict proves yet again that England and Wales (and NI?) need the not proven verdict.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:51

I think this thread is in need of the stat that men are more likely to be raped than to be falsely accused

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 10:51

Pinky - you don't smell bullshit, you just don't agree. That's fine but in our legal system if you are found not guilty you are freed and treated for all purposes as innocent. That's the whole point. That there are grey spaces in between those two findings is factually accurate but unrecognised by the law.

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:54

Grumpy are you going to give us evidence as to why rape accused deserve special treatment? Is there an epidemic of men being wrongly convicted? Do more men "falsely" accused suffer worse MH issues than men "falsely" accused of assault?

If you do your homework (and I'm happy to link to evidence) the number of women convicted of false accusations of rape is negligible. Many of these haven't accused a specific person who they had consensual sex with but have said that a man has come in their home to attack them, when nonsuch man exists. Therefore no "ruined lives". Women who do lie do get convicted. Unlike rapists where the conviction rate is painfully low

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 10:57

It's also rather common for a false accusation to be just aimed at the wrong person. E.g. Woman is being abused by someone but claims not to know who it was.

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:57

I'm just it's going to leave this here

To think the Ched Evans verdict shows why mob justice is wrong
PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 10:57

That's from Rape Crisis Scotland

VinoTime · 15/10/2016 10:58

The man is utter scum.

He received a message from his pal stipulating he had a drunk girl at his hotel room, saw an opportunity because he's a predatory bastard, lied his way into the hotel room, said nothing to the victim (who was so drunk she could barely stand up) and then proceeded to rape her.

Apparently this is now acceptable though because the woman in question had sexual history previous to all of this, which makes it all alright for that sleazebag arsehole to have stuck his unwanted todger in her without requesting consent first - which she was too plastered to give anyway. But that's okay, y'know, because he's a Starfootballer!Star And don't even get me started on his vile girlfriend and her bribes 'rewards' for information. The pair of them are disgusting and deserve each other. I feel heart sorry for their son though. Imagine being born to such foul people Sad

YABTU OP. Mob justice had nothing to do with any of this.

PinkyOfPie · 15/10/2016 11:00

Traditionally this is the point in the thread where someone comes along to say "my friend/brother/partner/dog was falsely accused of rape and it ruined his life". There was no conviction of the accuser of course, but the poster takes their beloved's word for it. You know, becaus real rapists always admit to their rape!

wasonthelist · 15/10/2016 11:01

Would she have alleged rape if they had not been famous?

She didn't allege anything.

We'll never know.

You'll never know anything unless you do a bit more reading

fanoir · 15/10/2016 11:01

I am so angry at this verdict and the fact that "justice" has a price tag. What a terrible time to be a woman.

BeyondPolkadots · 15/10/2016 11:02

Yy pinky! 3... 2... 1....

Grumpyaboutchristmas · 15/10/2016 11:02

No evidence pinky, just my personal view based on my idea of justice. As I've said before, mud sticks, the media get involved, innocent lives can be ruined. Not exclusive to sexual assault but the same thing was found with the teacher neighbour in the Jo Yates murder case who was vilified in the press when he had no connection to the case whatsoever. That will stay with him forever as his Leveson evidence shows.

I'd extend anonymity across the board were it my choice, because mud does stick. People will always remember the completely unrelated and intrusive back stories and relate them as fact.

Of course this goes hand in hand with the current state of (gutter press) journalism, society's thirst for the gory details in these cases etc, all of which I think negatively affect access to justice. Anonymise, stop the press being involved, stop the kangaroo courts, and justice is much more likely in all cases, not just sexual assault.

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