Drunk consent is still consent is a load of rubbish. ( Ched Even acquitted)

[EveOnline2016]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ched-evans-rape-trial-defence-12017591

I am fuming at this, how many women now will not come forward because of this ruling.

Sorry if this has been done already.

and, AND- who the fuck cries rape for a "laugh"?

for the court cases, over and over again
for the twitter slander
for having your name trashed repeatedly

its like the very opposite of a kiss and tell isn't it, a kiss and get-hated

There's a lot of wild hysteria about this!

The only evidence was used related to the sexual position used, and words she used to 'give consent' which were the same as she had used on 2 other occasions where she had consented, and this was not used to say she had consented (or was in a fit state to do so) - but to investigate whether the defendant had reasonably thought she had given consent, even though the woman couldn't remember.

The fact that the words used were the same meant that the defendant could reasonably have thought that the woman gave consent. (Also do you get to choose the position if you are raped? that's another question but it wouldn't be my idea of rape).

It is not the case that the info was used to discredit her.

I think she still comes out of this looking like the innocent (if unwise) party - the men behaved very unpleasantly imo. Even if what they did wasn't a crime it was definitely ungentlemanly.

The worry is that it took Evan's rich girlfriend's dad to pay for the appeal. What if he'd been poor?

They were having sex doggy style so she wasn't comatose or unconscious. She just said she couldn't remember it the next day.

Being took drunk to consent isn't necessarily about being drunk or comatose. It's not defined.

The hysteria is about the fact that This evidence was allowed to be heard, not what was said.

Was ched Evans in the room during her prior sexual encounters? If not how the hell does he know that her idea of consent is to say fuck me harder?

Also I disagree to those who say they will advise their teenagers to get blind drunk, wear heels they can't walk in and go through unlit parks at night etc, because the responsibility to keep safe falls on men.

Presumably you never lock your house because it's not your fault if a burglar nicks your stuff.

A friend's cousin fell in the Thames and drowned on his 18th birthday whilst drunk a few years ago. Is that the river's fault?

Can people really not see that rape is not the victim's fault but still take basic precautions to avoid it happening to you?

Can people really not see that rape is not the victim's fault but still take basic precautions to avoid it happening to you?
Thank you that is the point I was trying to make but the only other responses I got were to accuse me of victim blaming, which I wasn't.

A friend's cousin fell in the Thames and drowned on his 18th birthday whilst drunk a few years ago. Is that the river's fault?

How is that in ANY way the same as being raped.

Of course the responsibility lies with men to not rape. FFS.

I also think it's all very easy and naive to suggest that girls can help themselves by not getting so drunk they end up in dangerous situations.

In my case, which I'm aware is probably not typical, I had a drink problem as a teenager (which incidentally was triggered by an abusive encounter with a boy), and from when I first started drinking alcohol regularly, I never drank normally. I mean, seriously, what is 'normal' drinking to most people is so far removed from the way I drank as a teenager that it's almost laughable.

So, whilst in theory, it might seem like a gentle, empowering suggestion to a rational person (although I disagree, it most certainly is victim blaming), it's not always quite as simple as you may think!

Ah the old "locking your house/car" bullshit analogy. Being a woman, being in possession of a vagina is not the same as locking your car.

Being drunk, wearing heels, walking through a park in the dark etc. are all perfectly safe things to do UNLESS you meet a rapist. If no rapists are about on that particular route and on that particular night then you don't get raped. The other woman who met the rapist does. When will women stop blaming women for rape, and blame rapists?

You need to separate two ideas

A woman should be able to walk around whenever she wants, wearing whatever she wants in whatever state she wants and not be raped.

My husband, father, brother, when faced with an extremely drunk stranger would either ignore them or get them help. They wouldn't turn into rapists.

Rapists go looking for opportunities to rape. Not every man is a rapist given the opportunity

The second idea is basic safety. Yes, I lock my doors. Yes I try to stick to well lit streets at night. Should i have to? No. Would I curtail my life to the point I didn't get drunk on a night out in case it gets me raped? No. That's too far.

Oh and let's not forget that statistically most women are raped by someone they know, not a stranger in a dark alley.

My head is actually going to explode with victim blaming bullshit.

Rape has often, yes often, been used as a tool of control in conflict situations. Probably still is. Would the victim blamera like to suggest ways the women could take precautions against that?

Women are raped in marriage. Suggestions about how the victim could prevent this, please?

Women are raped by gangs, as part of the culture. Tell me, what would you like the victims to do to stop this.

Rape is caused by men. Men, don't rape. See? Problem solved.

You said it better than I could Boundaries.

I actually don't think the outcome in this case is outrageous. I think that if I was on a jury I would probably have agreed there was reasonable doubt. I think if I was a judge I would have allowed the evidence of other partners on the specific wording combined with the specific sex act too.

What is terrible is the way the complainant is being spoken about by some, as if she has lied. That is just awful and indefensible.

My head is actually going to explode with victim blaming bullshit
No one is victim blaming and of course there are so many situations in which women are raped and abused and there is nothing at all that they can do.

Personally I think that although women should be able to get as drunk as they want and remain totally safe, sadly that is not the case and this quote from RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) is quite relevant here -
"Like many other substances, alcohol can inhibit a person's physical and mental abilities. In the context of sexual assault, this means that alcohol may make it easier for a perpetrator to commit a crime and can even prevent someone from remembering that the assault occurred."

So rather than, "men don't rape drunk women" it's "women don't get too drunk". Again and again women are expected to be responsible for mens behaviour.

And this is why most women don't report rape.

So rather than, "men don't rape drunk women" it's "women don't get too drunk"
Ideally obviously yes, men should not rape any women BUT sadly they do why would you want to put yourself at risk not only of sexual assault but also of being in an accident.

this quote from RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) is quite relevant here -
"Like many other substances, alcohol can inhibit a person's physical and mental abilities. In the context of sexual assault, this means that alcohol may make it easier for a perpetrator to commit a crime and can even prevent someone from remembering that the assault occurred."

Actually it's not relevant. Who are they and why is their opinion important?

Actually it's not relevant. Who are they and why is their opinion important?
"RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization and was named one of "America's 100 Best Charities" by Worth magazine. RAINN created and operates the National Sexual Assault Hotline in partnership with more than 1,000 local sexual assault service providers across the country and operates the DoD Safe Helpline for the Department of Defense. RAINN also carries out programs to prevent sexual violence, help victims, and ensure that perpetrators are brought to justice."

Point of order: men ARE told not to rape women, drunk or otherwise.

It's even written into law.

Some men choose to ignore this.

Maybe it's down to "rape culture", maybe it isn't, but until the problem is sorted and where necessary a cultural shift brought about to change male behaviour, then it makes 100% sense for women to be extra vigilant. Like not being blind drunk around men who aren't known for their moral fibre.

It's common sense FFS

It's definitely possible to advise taking care of personal safety in a way that is not victim-blaming IMO. I also don't think it should be taboo to say that people who are vulnerable in some way (mh, addiction problems) are disproportionately likely to be the victims of crimes, including sexual crimes. That's not blaming them, it's acknowledging the real problems such people face. Sometimes there can be an insistence that any attempt to profile victims of sex crimes is victim blaming and IMO this is counterproductive. For example, it means that a if a vulnerable person complains of two different sex crimes they are less likely to be believed because what are the chances of it happening twice? Well, in fact, someone who has been a victim of rape is likelier than someone who hasn't been to be raped again (not ness by same person). The same goes for DV-- being a previous DV victim makes you statistically likelier to enter another abusive relationship.

I think that no potentially helpful advice (eg on how vulnerable drinking can make you) should be withheld on ideological grounds. On the other hands it is essential that it is delivered in such a way that makes clear that being vulnerable is not the same as being responsible for a crime.

[applause]

If I walk along a road in heels in the dark whilst a bit pissed and meet no one, nothing will happen. So the problem is not me or my actions. So if we are going to advise a curfew, which is what you are advising, then it is men who need to have that curfew. If men weren't allowed out on their own after dark, if they weren't allowed near women who were wearing heels or a short skirt, then there wouldn't be a problem would there? So yes dish out your curfews but not to women.