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Original poster

Drunk consent is still consent is a load of rubbish. ( Ched Even acquitted)

331 replies

EveOnline2016 · 14/10/2016 15:58

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ched-evans-rape-trial-defence-12017591

I am fuming at this, how many women now will not come forward because of this ruling.

Sorry if this has been done already.

OP posts:
HuskyLover1 · 15/10/2016 12:43

Just to put another spin on this : I have had sex with quite a few different men, ranging from one night stands to short and long term relationships. I have never actually been asked whether I consent, and I have never said the words "I consent". Because it's been blatantly obvious that I am up for it. I think it would be a total passion killer, tbh.

If a woman is passed out, it's obvious she is not consenting. You'd have to be thick to think otherwise.

I've no idea how his GF can stand by him. He absolutely disgusts me. Money I guess. Well, I wouldn't stay with someone capable of this, even if he was a billionaire. It's skin crawling.

IceIceIce · 15/10/2016 12:52

I have to say I question the witnesses intentions given that Evans GF was offering 50k.

IF (please note before kicking off IF) the man is telling the truth then I do think his evidence is relevant. No one is questioning her promiscuity or suggesting she in any way asked for it, but given that she insists she can't remember, the similarities in behaviour are relevant to weather he is guilty of rape. You can think he's a sleaze bag or a creep etc all you want but the fact is that it's really one of a tiny amount of ways to determine whether she consented or not.

But like I said. I'm not sure I trust his motives because of the 50k offer.

ladyballs · 15/10/2016 13:22

I believe her.

travellinglighter · 15/10/2016 14:41

To be honest, I’m fed up of the whole thing, the £50k bribe, the girlfriend who stood by the cheating wanker, the sense of entitlement, all of it.

I know people who know the girl involved and they tell me she has a terrible reputation as if this is a green light to do whatever he likes. I’m hoping that the Welsh team management stick to their guns and never play him.

misson · 15/10/2016 14:46

Am not a fan of the Sun but I did a silent cheer when I saw their front page this morning. Picture of Ched Evans above the word guilty in massive letters. Reference to slime ball and treating women like dirt in small letters.

Not a good week for equality and women's rights.

GingerIvy · 15/10/2016 15:02

In this case, the other guys evidence was not that they'd had sex, but that she hadn't seemed very drunk at the time, but turned round the next day and couldn't remember what happened. If she has a history of forgetting sex afterwards, then that affects her credibility. If she has a history of not appearing drunk, but actually being so, then that can effect whether Evans had a reasonable belief she was consenting.

Or it's highly possible that guy is just as much a neanderthal dirtbag as Evans is.

Matchingbluesocks · 15/10/2016 16:56

"iF (please note before kicking off IF) the man is telling the truth then I do think his evidence is relevant. No one is questioning her promiscuity or suggesting she in any way asked for it, but given that she insists she can't remember, the similarities in behaviour are relevant to weather he is guilty of rape. You can think he's a sleaze bag or a creep etc all you want but the fact is that it's really one of a tiny amount of ways to determine whether she consented or not."

I'm confused by this. How do we know she consented to the sex with £50k man?

There seems to be no evidence that that's the case. Couldn't it just as easily be she's a drunk party girl who disgusting perverts have been taking advantage of to rape her?

raisedbyguineapigs · 15/10/2016 17:12

After reading the article above, the whole thing makes less sense. If she was comatose drunk, how could she have said 'fuck me harder'? If she did say that, surely that could take as consent? If she didn't, how could they have corroborated Evans's evidence to the others? He is disgusting, as is his vile mate and his wannabe wag vile girlfriend and her family, but surely if you ask someone to 'fuck you' it's consent? I might have missed something as I haven't been following it closely.

Boundaries · 15/10/2016 17:16

I repeat:
He did not talk to her, before, during or after sex.

I still failing to see where the confusion is about her lack of consent.

Liiinoo · 15/10/2016 17:25

If someone says 'more, more, harder, harder' or whatever distinctive phrase she used surely that was consent?

raisedbyguineapigs · 15/10/2016 17:44

The confusion is that she talked to him. And asked him to 'fuck her'. Now how the jury came to the conclusion that this was the case, or concluded that the other two people were telling the truth or weren't rapists themselves I don't know,as I haven't read the verdict. But the burden of proof in criminal cases is very high. If there was an element of doubt, then he's unfortunately not guilty.

Pseudonym99 · 15/10/2016 21:35

I wouldn't like it if the law took my decision making away from me because I'd had a drink. What if the bloke was drunk and a woman took advantage of that?

JeanGenie23 · 15/10/2016 21:44

The issue with this case is the reporting of it.
We have been given certain truths but not all of them I am sure.
At first it was said that she was comatosed passed out drunk, then yesterday it was reported that she said 'fuck me harder' and when asked if this was true she said yes it's quite likely. In which case she wasn't passed out and did consent Confused

To be honest I believe that she was two sheets to the wind and she wasn't aware of her surroundings and that he did take advantage and rape her.
It's a devastating case.

Liiinoo · 17/10/2016 23:41

I always thought there was reasonable doubt in this case so was Confused about the original guilty verdict and subsequent jail sentence.

I am still ambivalent - I think a not guilty verdict was fair but he was interviewed in today's Times and he referred repeatedly to being found innocent - which is not the case. There is a world of difference between not enough evidence to convict and innocent.

I am not a CE apologist - he acted like a sleezy, entitled little git (substitute a stronger word if that's how you roll) but being a sexist user and git is not a criminal offence.

I hope the woman involved gets to build a new life overseas as the press have suggested she might. And maybe his GF might see sense too.

yestheyhavethesamedad · 18/10/2016 01:03

strange question, but did she even know she was having sex with a different person, from what I have read CE went into the room and his friend left and he then had sex with her but didn't talk at all during it , so is it possible that she thought she was telling the man she did agree to have sex with to fuck her harder and wasn't even aware that it was 2 different people

GardenGeek · 18/10/2016 01:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Matchingbluesocks · 18/10/2016 08:21

Liiino the question for the jury was whether she was capable of consent and whether CE could reasonably believe he had it.

It wasn't about "fuck me harder" being consent (a 9 year old isn't capable of consent even they said the same, for example. If you're not capable of consent it doesn't matter what you say)

The second question is whether CE could reasonably believe he had consent. So far this has hung on the point that he didn't speak to her before he stuck his tongue/ cock in her so how could he think he had consent?

His defence, which the court where allowed to hear thanks to the court of appeal, was that the woman had used the same language and had the same outcome with 2 other men who she did apparently, have consensual sex with (fuck me harder, same position, and forgetting the next day) therefore this indicates that she wanted a total stranger to do the same, mid shag with a man she was having consensual sex with.

PersianCatLady · 18/10/2016 14:58

Aside from everything else in this case I really hope that people with daughters can use this sad tale in some way to encourage their daughters to be more wary of getting so wasted and putting themselves in these terrible situations.

I would like to point out that I am not saying that the girl in this case brought this on herself but I am certain that had she not have been so drunk that the situation would not have occurred.

PinkissimoAndPearls · 18/10/2016 16:30

Nice bit of victim blaming there Persian. No, I will be telling my daughters that the only reason women are raped is because men choose to rape them. Drink isn't responsible for rape, high heels aren't responsible, their sexual history isn't responsible...the man who rapes someone is responsible.

I can't believe people are still spouting bollocks misogynistic rape myths like this in 2016. Well I can believe it but it's so fucking depressing.

PersianCatLady · 18/10/2016 17:05

Nice bit of victim blaming there Persian
No I am not blaming the victim what I was trying to say is that women have to be aware that there are nasty men like this out there and that they need to have their wits about them.

I knew that however I worded what I was trying to say someone would accuse me of victim blaming even though that was not intended.

Would you still advise young women that they can get absolutely wasted and not worry because men should not rape them or would you try and encourage them to see that by being so ridiculously wasted they are putting themselves right where these evil bastards want them?

AristotlesTrousers · 18/10/2016 17:24

Thanks Persian. FYI, I turned to drink after my first abuser, and was paralytic when I was raped outside a night club by a stranger while celebrating my eighteenth birthday (22 years ago). No amount of 'education' would have stopped me drinking because I didn't have an off switch, and even though I am sixteen years sober now, I make no apologies for the fact I was drunk when I was raped. I expect I'm not the only one.

PinkissimoAndPearls · 18/10/2016 17:48

No Persian I would advise women that it is never our fault if we are raped. Never.

Women get raped whether they are drunk or sober. It's not the drink, it's the man. Having your "wits about you" can't prevent a man from raping you if that's what they choose to do.

Women should not have to change their behaviour, or their dress, or their drinking habits or anything so men don't rape them.

The responsibility, and the blame, lies entirely with the rapist not the victim.

corythatwas · 18/10/2016 18:09

so to sum up, the value of 50k bloke's evidence is as follows:

he was a previous bf of the drunken girl

he claimed that she had previously used the same phrases cited by Evans

he claimed that she had previously appeared able to give consent to sex and then claimed not to remember anything

this evidence was given after Evans' evidence: in other words, when he might reasonably know what Evans and the others had said about her

this evidence was given after a large award had been offered for evidence in Evans' favour

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 18/10/2016 18:13

JeanGenie23

I agree, and men should not shag women that are so fucking shit faced- and not in groups either !

this epitomises a sorry take, and FWIW I do think Chad has been punished. But she has been fucking brutally punished too which is desperately heartbreaking

AppleJac · 18/10/2016 18:16

Her family have forked out alot of money for him.

Her father owns prestons of bolton jewellers.

He did rape her i 100% believe that. I ve no idea why his partner has stood by him.