Drunk consent is still consent is a load of rubbish. ( Ched Even acquitted)

[EveOnline2016]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ched-evans-rape-trial-defence-12017591

I am fuming at this, how many women now will not come forward because of this ruling.

Sorry if this has been done already.

Korma, I'll politely ask again. Why do you disagree with that statement? Do you think rates of false accusations are high and rape are low?

Oh so wearing heels is irresponsible behaviour too now is it? Quite a list of "reasonable" precautions we should take to not get attacked building up here.

Because when people think of a male being raped they assume it
means a woman 'forcing herself' on them
No they don't, when people think of a man being raped they are thinking of another man being a rapist.

Under English law a woman cannot rape a man, rape is an offence that only a man commit against either a woman or a man.

So harmlesschap if (god forbid) any of your DC are raped whilst wearing high heels you will say "well you should have worn flat shoes and it wouldn't have happened"?

Because that's exactly what you are saying to them. That's the message you're giving them that they bear some responsibility for being a victim.

Fucking hell.

venus I don't think wearing high heels is irresponsible. I do think they can handicap you though.
What harmlesschap doesn't account for though is that men are generally better/faster runners though, so even in trainers a woman is still (statistically) unable to outrun an attacker.
(I'm assuming you were replying to harmless chap's post here. If not I apologise for misunderstanding).

Harmlesschap (nice irony with the name there) is also totally not realising that the majority of women are raped by men they know. So we shouldn't wear high heels at work, going for a meal, in our own homes?

It doesn't matter what we have on our fucking feet - it won't protect us. What will protect us is if men stop raping us so why don't you find some men to educate instead of telling women, including survivors, what we are doing wrong or have done wrong?

Venus Because we don't hear about the aftermath of a man's life after being found not guilty of rape yet there is a lot of research on the effects of rape on women.

Pink Where have I suggested I don't want to be educated? I have asked for links and I am here trying to debate, but you seem quick to accuse and label me.

Harmless Thanks for sharing your experience and view from a male perspective.

pinkLets face it, the best way of 'protecting' ourselves being raped is 'not being female'.
Just talking statistically there, and not belittling the experiences of male rape victims. All rape is horrific and no one should suffer it.

Yes, thanks for the male perspective that if you wear high heels you are more likely to get attacked. Should I be considering that I might get raped in every single decision I make?

Korma have you read the links I posted for you?

Korma, that wasn't the question. The statement with which you "disagreed" was quite clear. It was about the relative frequency of false accusations and rapes.

Because we don't hear about the aftermath of a man's life after being found not guilty of rape yet there is a lot of research on the effects of rape on women.

Being found not guilty on a rape charge DOES NOT MEAN ANYONE WAS FALSELY ACCUSED.

korma are you correlating being found 'not guilty' with a false accusation? Because they aren't the same thing. Being found not guilty means there wasn't enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt.
That's the way our justice system works. Of course anyone who is tried and is innocent is going to find that traumatic, that is true of any crime. Going through a criminal trial isn't an easy process.
On the flip side, there are bound to be some people who are found not guilty who in fact are guilty. Again, true of any crime.

just like being found not guilty of ANY charge done not mean that the accusation was false.

korma there are numerous high profile people for who being accused of rape appears to have had no discernible impact on their life after the trial. For example Bill Roach.
Look at the CE trial. Mr Evans gets hisorted conviction overturned. He has a job as a professional footballer. He stands to gain approx 1/2 a million "compo".
The victim, who did nothing at all not even report a crime, has had death threats and been forced to move several times. She's had her sexual behaviour raked over and reported by the press. She stands to gain I think 9,000 in "compo".
Who's life was ruined?

"Do we advise women to cut their hair short to 'stop them getting raped'? Do we suggest that a woman with a pony tail wasn't doing enough to protect herself? Of course we don't . A woman can wear her hair however she wants, that doesn't make her responsible for her own rape. The rapist is responsible."

And, if all women cut their hair short, would that stop rapists who currently grab by the ponytail? Nope. They'd grab by the shoulder or whatever.

PinkissimoAndPearls that is of course a deeply and deliberately offensive thing to suggest, of course I wouldn't I'm not a fucking animal but it doesn't change my attitude on advising how to minimise the risk of becoming a victim of crime. One DC is male one DC female both have the same advice, its not specific to rape its specific to safety and acknowledgement that there are always going to be violent people in this world no matter how much we would like to pretend otherwise.

As for women being weaker slower that may be true in some or many cases but its no reason not to try and minimise risk IMHO.

I'm not excusing any kind of violence or laying the blame at the door of anyone for their actions I'm simply advising those dearest to me how I believe they can try to make sure that its someone else rather than them who becomes the victim of violent or predatory behaviour.

Exactly, Hilary. It's like the modest dress thing. Eventually any woman who isn't wearing a bhurkha is seen as not being correctly dressed.
It's just this insidious belief that never really goes away, that women aren't entitled to full bodily automony. That our bodies are for the use of men unless we fulfill certain conditions, which are also open to being redefined of course.
It's really sad when you see women who still buy into it.

I don't listen to every piece of advice my dad gives me. Because he's got some attitudes I don't agree with and doesn't know the first thing about being a woman, so if he said I shouldn't wear heels as I couldn't run away I think I'd probably disregard that piece of wisdom. It wouldn't be in any way my fault or give me any responsibility in the event I was raped.

We all have to live our lives according to our own perception of risk and make choices about how much we want to limit ourselves in order to minimise that risk. We could shut ourselves up in a bunker underground. Most of us don't. I wonder why that is?

Harmlesschap, perhaps you can try to separate rape from other crimes, because it is different.

Exactly, Hilary. It's like the modest dress thing. Eventually any woman who isn't wearing a bhurkha is seen as not being correctly dressed.
It's just this insidious belief that never really goes away, that women aren't entitled to full bodily automony. That our bodies are for the use of men unless we fulfill certain conditions, which are also open to being redefined of course.
Yep. I think this also applies to the appeal ruling. Some sexual conduct (ie sex doggy style) is not acceptable female behaviour.

Perhaps harmlesschap could try and imagine being a woman himself, say 5'4'' (the average height of a woman). Where virtually every man he has ever known has been taller, had a longer reach, superior upper body strength and could run faster. Where even when he gets his black belt he still can't compete with the male black belts. They can still batter him if they feel like it because of physiology. Where he has to trust that his partner is a decent human being and won't turn round and rape him if he says he doesn't fancy it tonight. Just trust his partner not to pull the condom off halfway through, or 'accidentally' put it in the 'wrong hole' even though he's repeatedly said he doesn't like anal.

Wow, doggystyle not acceptable female behaviour?

Ched Evans the Men's Hero - this is women are all facing.

roseandmumandmore.com/2016/10/17/ched-evans-the-mens-hero/

"Since Ched Evan’s rape conviction was overturned something has struck me. Something remarkable.

Men are THRILLED. Not just thrilled, they’re championing him as a hero. They’re determined to force women to agree it was the right choice. They’re aggressively arguing against women who speak against his behaviour. They’re hashtagging IAmChed.

Ched Evans. The Men’s Hero."

Well maybe I'm reading too much into the appeal. Just this idea that doggy style is so unusual that surely no one could make it up seems to be policing acceptable sex for women.
If the victim in the CE case had been shown for example to like it tied with a pink feather boa I could understand it.
But doggy style? Nah.

Anyway I'm on too many CE threads now and it's confusing me