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AIBU?

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Original poster

Drunk consent is still consent is a load of rubbish. ( Ched Even acquitted)

331 replies

EveOnline2016 · 14/10/2016 15:58

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ched-evans-rape-trial-defence-12017591

I am fuming at this, how many women now will not come forward because of this ruling.

Sorry if this has been done already.

OP posts:
Boundaries · 19/10/2016 17:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FullTimeYummy · 19/10/2016 17:20

I think this discussion has reached its natural conclusion. There's nothing the woman in question could have done to avoid being humiliated by Ched Evans. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Because that's how stuff works. Every time. And there's nothing women can do to mitigate the risk from footballers on a night out. Nothing.

Genius.

SooWrites · 19/10/2016 17:23

There's nothing the woman in question could have done to avoid being humiliated by Ched Evans

This poor woman was humiliated by CE because he is a reprehensible example of a human being not because she got drunk.

What is so hard to grasp about that?

venusinscorpio · 19/10/2016 17:23

For the hard of thinking, for the umpteenth time, you are perfectly free to perceive your own level of risk and take steps to mitigate or minimise it and to give your daughters advice that they may or may not take. Just don't apply your personal views and prejudices to other women, who make different choices. If you do that, you are victim blaming.

And stop implying or saying that the problem is female rape victims' irresponsible behaviour. It's not. It's male behaviour, both directly and indirectly, and women who prop up misogynistic rape apologism and rape myths and don't teach their sons not to rape women. Do try not to do that, yeah?

I think that's me done here.

FullTimeYummy · 19/10/2016 17:23

I have grasped that. I even said it in my post ffs

BeMorePanda · 19/10/2016 17:28

to keep women and girls safe, or at least to make the world a safer place for them to exist in, we should all heed SooWrites advice - this is where the change lies. Women have been receiving "how to be to not be raped" advice for years and things have only got worse. Remember the definition of insanity!! (feels a bit like this thread TBH)

Especially this:

By making rape and sexual assault a man's issue and not a womens issue. By refusing to accept that women bear any responsibility for the behaviour of men. By making it socially unacceptable to treat women as sexual commodities. By never comparing women to property.

venusinscorpio · 19/10/2016 17:29

Just to add, I don't blame the mothers of rapists. I worded that slightly wrongly. I just meant that we all have a part to play in fighting misogyny, and just hoping it will happen to those other, bad, irresponsible women instead isn't helpful. It's your problem too.

BeMorePanda · 19/10/2016 17:32

Even Ched Evans Soo? According to the law, he's not.
No No No No No - according the the law there is not enough evidence to convict him of rape. It doesn't mean he is innocent. We do not know if the jury thought he was guilty or innocent - just that they did not find there was evidence he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

See the link up thread with a summary written by a judge:

"1. So Ched Evans has been proved innocent, right?

Wrong. You’d be forgiven for thinking this, given that it was in the prepared statement read out by his solicitor, but Ched Evans has not “demonstrated his innocence”. That is not how our criminal justice system operates. It is not a means by which the truth of a situation or event is conclusively and fully determined. Rather the jury are asked one simple question – are you sure that the prosecution has proved its case beyond reasonable doubt (or, as juries are commonly instructed, so that you are sure)? “Not guilty” means just that. The jury were not sure that he was guilty. They may have decided that he was totally, utterly innocent, but we don’t know. All we know is that they considered the evidence, and were less than sure of his guilt. As I tell juries in every closing speech – if you think the defendant probably did it, he’s still not guilty."

thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

maggiethemagpie · 19/10/2016 17:37

Panda - I meant he's not a criminal. The PP said all rapists are criminals. Ched may be a rapist who's not a criminal, in the eyes of the law.

Jeez...............

maggiethemagpie · 19/10/2016 17:43

I said it in my post too Yummy... but it's like there's a filter on whoever's reading them so I write about taking steps to make risks less likely and all they can read is RAPE IS THE WOMANS FAULT, in block caps just like that.

Bowing out now as this is getting tiresome.

femfortheday · 19/10/2016 17:49

As ha seen said up thread, most women are sexually assaulted or raped by men that they know. Your comments about women taking responsibility for their safety by not dressing in skimpy clothes and not getting drunk are nonsense previously because the majority of these attacks happen outside of these situations. Of women really must be responsible for their own safety in this regard, the only sensible thing you could suggest is that they are never alone with men. Not their boyfriends, friends, fathers, brothers, uncles, bosses, colleagues etc.
If women were really raped because they were drunk and wearing nothing but thongs, nuns wouldn't be assaulted. Elderly women in care homes wouldn't be assaulted, school girls in uniform wouldn't be assaulted in the middle of the day.

If a man is raped no one ever suggests that he shouldn't have worn such tight jeans, he shouldn't have been out late, he shouldn't have had a few drinks and walked home alone, he shouldn't have been out running on his own.

Our bodies are not property we have to guard and defend in the way you suggest.

FullTimeYummy · 19/10/2016 17:54

I've come to the same conclusion Maggie, so sad

PinkissimoAndPearls · 19/10/2016 17:56

I notice those who are saying women should be responsible for taking precautions to minimise the risk of being raped, didn't answer my question?

I had been drinking alcohol (oh I was wearing a short skirt too) before I was raped by a man I had met that day. Clearly I didn't take the correct precautions to keep myself safe - so how much responsibly should I bear? 5%? 50%? A little, a lot?

Is there a reason you don't want to answer this question? I suppose it's easier to just belittle me and dismiss me and patronise me and all the other women who have actually experienced the horrific reality of male violence and rape.

BeMorePanda · 19/10/2016 17:57

Of course rapists are criminals. They have committed a very serious crime and are criminals.

By your logic burglars who aren't caught and convicted aren't criminals?

Jeeze! Ok then. Weird world you live in

FullTimeYummy · 19/10/2016 17:59

The drunk/taking responsibility type comments relate to rapes that happen in drunk situations. Because this particular incident involved drink.It's unfathomable why people keep assuming this advice is aimed at nine year old's and care home residents.

It's sad that so many on this thread are allowing their own experiences to blind them to what is actually being said.

I'm out, I hope you all get over and see sense one day

PinkissimoAndPearls · 19/10/2016 18:01

Still not answering my question. What a surprise.

KindDogsTail · 19/10/2016 18:02

You should take zero responsibility for him raping you Flowers

ComfortingKormaBalls · 19/10/2016 18:05

For anyone reading this who feels they do want to take some action to keep themselves safe the Suzy Lamplugh Trust website has some good advice.

SooWrites · 19/10/2016 18:06

Rape is the rapists fault.

Period. End of discussion.

By passing the responsibility to women to keep themselves safe/r from rape, you are giving rapists a green light to rape as long as certain set of circumstances are in place.

If the woman is drunk - the rape isn't real rape.
If the woman is wearing skimpy clothes - the rape isn't real rape.
If she said yes to your mate - not real rape.

If all three are in place then it's impossible to rape her. You can lie your way into a hotel room, stick your dick in her without speaking to her and leg it through a fire escape and it's still not rape.

Is this really the message we want to give to young men and women?

FullTimeYummy · 19/10/2016 18:06

I have no idea of what circumstances you were raped in pink, but I'm guessing you wouldn't advise your daughter or another woman to willingly put themselves in the same situation.

As to how much you are to blame: zero moral responsiblity. As said several times up thread. Goodnight

femfortheday · 19/10/2016 18:07

So women should only be responsible in certain situations? Why do you think it's reasonable to expect women to be responsible in one instance (in, not getting drunk) but not in another (in going running on her own, or being married to a man)?

PersianCatLady · 19/10/2016 18:07

But I don't think you should come on here saying I/ my daughter can't take action to keep ourselves safe(r) because by doing so we're somehow accepting the blame for any rape that may occur. That's nuts
I totally agree with you Maggie and I think it is really unfair of people to make out that offering that advice is somehow wrong.

PersianCatLady · 19/10/2016 18:12

No No No No No - according the the law there is not enough evidence to convict him of rape
If you were to call a person in CE's situation in rapist in public then you could be sued for slander and if you did it in writing you could be sued for defamation as in the eyes of the law he is not a rapist.

PersianCatLady · 19/10/2016 18:13

libel NOT defamation

birdsdestiny · 19/10/2016 18:14

So come on those advising women to modify their behaviour. To go home earlier,to not walk alone, to not drink. Who is commiting this crime. Oh yes, men. So where is the campaign to say to men don't drink, don't walk home alone because you may rape someone. No sign of it is there. No sign of it on this thread. In court cases lets ask men those questions - Why were you there, were you drunk? People would laugh at the idea of a curfew for men. And the reason for that is they think women are lesser than men.