Drunk consent is still consent is a load of rubbish. ( Ched Even acquitted)

[EveOnline2016]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ched-evans-rape-trial-defence-12017591

I am fuming at this, how many women now will not come forward because of this ruling.

Sorry if this has been done already.

I suggest you take a look at the statistics of false reporting Korma. It is not a common occurrence. Unlike the rape and sexual assault of women and girls.

I'm just thinking about this.

My parents were very strict, they drummed safety into me a lot, I think now in my 30s I'm an extremely cautious person because of that. We were always watching things like crime watch and having discussions about things.

However in my teens and early 20s I still did absolutely loads of stupid stuff that my parents don't even know about. I put myself in loads of dangerous situations. My gosh I can remember getting into cars for lifts on a couple of occasions with strangers.

When I think back though, nothing ever happened to me in those circumstances. The time something did (I was threatened), was actually with two men that my friend had known for a long time.

The time I was raped was in a relationship, the times I've been groped and harassed have been at work, on public transport, going up the high street on my lunch break, on the coach on a college trip, hell even at school ffs. All in the daytime and stone cold sober.

I know that's only my experience and not evidence, but it tells me women aren't safe even in normal day to day life.

I believe there's a problem with excessive drinking in this country but I don't think it has much to do with rape (overall), and I think to suggest to women otherwise would be doing them a disservice.

Our girls to limit their freedoms
Aside from anything else is getting so drunk that you can't stand up and you vomit over yourself in public really a freedom that it so important that it must not be curtailed?

When I looked into alcohol before, research seems to suggest that being drunk is a risk factor for men to comit rape. So maybe we should be educating boys that being drunk is more likely to cause them to rape someone and they shouldn't go out if drunk?
I need to look at it again because I'm not sure being drunk was actually a risk factor for women being a rape victim in the same way.

Lighthouse that has been very much my experience too.
You are not alone - it is all too common.

Yep. A widely cited study (Abbey 1996) stated 74% of perpetrators and 50% of victims had been drinking at the time of a sexual assault.

Persian you seem to be determined to miss the point.

Instead of being defensive and reactive perhaps take a moment (please, pretty please, cherry on top and all) to really think about what is being discussed here, and read some of the articles linked up thread and think about what people are saying with an open mind for a while.

Here's a non download link. It's 55% of victims

www.ndsu.edu/alcoholinfo/students/alcohol_sexual_assault/

I agree with you lighthouse, same in my group of friends, one on a main road (daylight) one on a beach in India( early evening) thankfully both escaped. And do you know what my first thought was when my friend told her story of the beach. What were you doing on a beach in India ( a country you dont know well) on your own. But I was being a massive twat. My friend has travelled all over the world on her own, she is far braver than me. It's is not up to other people to decide what freedoms are more worthy than others. I too worry about excessive drinking but not in terms of rape. Sorry that's wrong, I do worry about drinking and rape, I worry that rapes of drunk women are seen as different to those of sober women.
A MN thread asking people to list the 'risks' they have taken. That thread would fill up very quickly I think.

Except the chances of a man being falsely accused by a woman and having his life ruined are extremely small. The chance of a woman being raped or sexually assaulted are pretty high I'd disagree.

Why did he feel it was appropriate to treat a woman the way he did? my opinion would be that he's an overpaid, indulged footballer.

I suggest you take a look at the statistics of false reporting Can you give me some links please, I'm pushed for time at the mo to search the internet

Can people really not see the difference between these statements? Imagine saying them out loud to your DD.

1. Don't drink too much and fall over and hurt yourself.
2. Don't drink too much and leave your phone behind in the bar.
3. Don't drink too much and get raped.

No 3 is exactly what you are saying here, to your DDs and every other woman including those of us here who are survivors.

Those of you saying no 3 would you concede that people who have been raped perhaps have a deeper understanding? It's really hard I think for some people to actually understand that rape just isn't sex, it is violence. Those of us that do understand because we have lived it, know there is no way we could have prevented it. No way.

Everyone on this thread has told me, after I shared my story, that I wasn't to blame (well those that didn't tell me to get over myself). But every woman who has been raped has the same story, every single woman. We haven't had sex because we were drunk, we have all been victims of violence and we couldn't have prevented it.

Please don't be defensive and dismissive, please understand that we know what we are talking about and it's really important that we aren't dismissed. We would only talk about something so painful and difficult (thank you thymelord btw, you know what I mean) if we didn't genuinely want to help other women not suffer as we have. We really want women to know that it's never their fault - you are telling them that it might be or it might have been a bit their fault if they got plastered - it really really isn't. Men rape women, it's their fault. They need telling to change their behaviour, not their victims.

Korma maybe you can come back when you're not so pressed for time and can deign to spare us some of your attention?

Or alternatively you can take your rape myths and fuck off as you have no desire to be educated and that's not why you're here.

I'd love to know on what basis you disagree with the first statement Korma. Do you honestly think rates of false accusation are high and rapes are low?

Korma this took me less time to google that it took you to type your previous post - but whatever!

www.theguardian.com/law/2014/dec/01/109-women-prosecuted-false-rape-allegations

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/chloe-emmott/false-rape-allegation-statistics-bbc-newsbeat_b_2878392.html

also false rape allegations have been commented on, on the Rape Crisis rape myths page which has been repeatedly linked on this thread - but here it is again. I guess you don't believe Rape Crisis either?

rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php

perhaps you will believe the CPS?
www.cps.gov.uk/publications/research/perverting_course_of_justice_march_2013.pdf

The stat that always sticks in my mind is that a man has a higher risk of being anally raped by another man than he has of being falsely accused of rape by a woman.

Persian you seem to be determined to miss the point
I am not missing the point but I think that I don't agree with your point of view and you don't agree with mine.

I can understand what you are saying but I just cannot agree with you therefore I will just accept that you will live your life the way you want to and I will live mine the way I want to.

Advising children (boys and girls) not to get paralytic drunk is part of responsible parenting, along with not leaving your drink unattended, not accepting lifts from strangers, not using unlisenced mini cabs, etc etc.
I see this as general safety advice and not specific to rape, and not specific to females either. When it is applied just to girls/women 'not getting raped' then it does become 'victim blaming'.
Probably going off on a tangent here but According to a survey I read of convicted (stranger) rapists the first thing they looked for in a potential victim was long hair, especially tied up in a pony tail. They used it to restrain her. They didn't bother with women with short hair because she had more chance of getting away.Do we advise women to cut their hair short to 'stop them getting raped'? Do we suggest that a woman with a pony tail wasn't doing enough to protect herself? Of course we don't . A woman can wear her hair however she wants, that doesn't make her responsible for her own rape. The rapist is responsible.
In the same way, a woman can go out and get drunk, she can sleep with one man (or many) and say 'no' to the next one. That is her right. The rapist is always responsible for the rape, never the victim.

You say that noeffing but a while ago there was a whole Facebook meme going round saying exactly that
I totally agree with what you say about rape. Sadly others won't and from previous experience on these kinds of threads sometimes it's to maintain their own cognitive dissonance about events in their own lives. Very sad.

Do you know I never really understood the thing about rape not being about sex.

But having thought about it more recently, when my ex raped me I was actually leaving him.

Things were bad between us anyway and it had just got to the point where there was nothing left to hang on for. I was gathering my stuff together to leave. It had happened a few times and he'd usually beg me not to go, but that time he was different and kept flitting between asking me to stay and throwing my things at me telling me to get out.

He was one of those guys that didn't want me but didn't want anyone else to have me, had to be in control and had to have the last word.

I think what he did was a last ditch attempt at controlling me when I was slipping out of his control.

Sorry to keep mentioning it but it's actually helpful for me to have realised that I'd never looked at it that way before.

PinkissimoAndPearls Its useful when posters like Felascloak* put up links to support their argument, so others CAN educate themselves.

Being rude, aggressive and telling people to fuck off isnt going to influence others towards your viewpoint.

felascloak Sometimes I find it helpful when discussing rape to turn it round by suggesting a boy or man being raped by another man. Would they still have the same attitudes or ask the same questions?
Probably not, because when people think of a male being raped they assume it means a woman 'forcing herself' on them(which I'm not condoning of course). They can't quite picture the pain and violence of being forcibly penetrated. There's also no concept of males being obliged to protect themselves against male rape, by (just an example) not wearing tight jeans to 'show their bum off'.
The problem is that some people think that men are entitled to women's bodies, at least under certain conditions, whereas no one ever thinks a man is entitled to help himself to another man's body.

Yes well saying offensive bollocks like this

Except the chances of a man being falsely accused by a "woman and having his life ruined are extremely small. The chance of a woman being raped or sexually assaulted are pretty high

I'd disagree"

tends to show people that you're not here in a desire to educate yourself. You've spouting offensive and hurtful rape myths upthread and you're a rape apologist.

I actually prefer not to engage with rape apologists myself so wish they would fuck off quite frankly.

Lighthouse I know the rape is violence not sex concept is awful and upsetting but it bears repeating. I really would like the general public to grasp it but I also think it's one of those things that unfortunately you have to experience to really get it.

I'm sorry you've had to experience it.

Obviously I'm male and while they didn't want to rape me I was randomly attacked in the street in my early 20's by 2 guys who wanted to give someone a kicking. The fact that I wasn't drunk, had shoes I could run in and I had a few years of martial arts training meant I was able to avoid serious injury, create an opportunity to escape and get away.

I will continue to advise both of my teenage children to stay reasonably sober, be aware of who is around them and not to handicap themselves for the sake of fashion as the best form of defence with is simply to run.

Its not about victim blaming it is about taking charge of your own safety, as best you can, in a violent world.