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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DC passed grammar test how about a well done?

148 replies

monkeytree · 10/10/2016 16:46

It really seems that we live in a culture where it is not the done thing to congratulate or praise those who do well.

My dd has passed for grammar school despite only be considered average at school, no heavy, intense tutoring just support from me and her dad yet she has gone on to pass the grammar test with flying colours. Some of the children considered to be top performers did not pass. I know it is hard on the child if they don't pass but other than my two closest friends there has not been a well done uttered by another parent. Dd has been scolded by another parent about talking about it and neither her teacher or headmaster have offered words of congratulation to her. Another girl in dd's class (obviously this had come from the parent) had said dd only passed because she got extra marks being the youngest in the class. Why can't people be civil and at least say well done? Feel annoyed with school because they have left dd in the middle sets and not helped her to progress. I know it doesn't really matter to anyone else that my dd has worked hard and gained a place at grammar but we don't seem to live in a culture which celebrates anyone else's success. Obviously, I've spoilt my dd rotten for doing so well and I am so proud of her as she is proud of herself and that's the main thing.

OP posts:

notanetter · 11/10/2016 10:01

(Especially as, even without the influence of tutoring being taken into account, by the age of 11 many perfectly bright and capable kids are running this 'race' with both feet tied together and carrying a bloody great rucksack full of bricks)

GetAHaircutCarl · 11/10/2016 10:03

One thing you need to learn as a parent - and sharpish - is that no one is really interested in your DC (exceptions are probably, your DH, your Mum and Dad, a couple of mates ).

That said, I've always found it rather odd, how people will cheerfully celebrate one type of success but not another. And yes, sports and arts seem to attract gushing praise, where academic success, not so much.

MyWineTime · 11/10/2016 10:06

Grammar school entrance exams test intelligence not education.
No they don't! They test the ability to pass that test under those circumstances. It's a very narrow view of intelligence and it doesn't reflect the overall abilities of a child.

Paying DC for A grades, handing out bikes for 11+ passes and all of that type of thing inculcate the wrong attitude. Success really is its own reward.
^^yes, this. You are doing more harm to your children if you reward them this way for passing tests. If they don't get enough satisfaction from their own hard work, then how on earth will they maintain long-term progress. Are you going to reward every test or exam result for evermore?
Let's hope your children will continue to live up to the success that is worthy of your praise and reward.

schbittery · 11/10/2016 10:09

you are allowed to be proud and you should be but showing off in front of other kids and parents is always unedifying - why isnt it enough for you and your family to be proud and happy for her?

MyWineTime · 11/10/2016 10:10

sports and arts seem to attract gushing praise, where academic success, not so much.
Praise maybe, but not value. There is still a huge gap in people's perception of the non-academic subjects. Creative subjects are simply not valued in the same way as academic ones.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:11

Feel annoyed with school because they have left dd in the middle sets and not helped her to progress

this is the most surprising part of your post op.

how many other dc are being left to languish in middle groups?
Op - well done to your DD - do you know something, in our family we try and be - and raise DC to be happy when other people do well!

Whether I had entered my own DC for anything and whether they lost or won I would try and be happy for other people. Even a pang of jealously or upset doesn't and shouldn't stop being civil and kind to other people.

well done your DD you should be very very proud and your DD.

BertrandRussell · 11/10/2016 10:13

As I said earlier, children who do well academically will do better in life. Why do they need a certificate and an assembly as well?

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:13

It's a very narrow view of intelligence and it doesn't reflect the overall abilities of a child

I agree with this but do also bear in mind the child has to have an excellent vocabulary and understanding of maths etc. The child will have to be capable in many ways to get through.

What this does not mean however is that its the BE ALL AND END ALL of intelligence. It means the child is a strong all rounder.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:13

It's a very narrow view of intelligence and it doesn't reflect the overall abilities of a child

I agree with this but do also bear in mind the child has to have an excellent vocabulary and understanding of maths etc. The child will have to be capable in many ways to get through.

What this does not mean however is that its the BE ALL AND END ALL of intelligence. It means the child is a strong all rounder.

BertrandRussell · 11/10/2016 10:14

"Feel annoyed with school because they have left dd in the middle sets and not helped her to progress

this is the most surprising part of your post op.

how many other dc are being left to languish in middle groups? "

Is there any suggestion that the OP's dd is in the wrong groups at school?

Sunshineonacloudyday · 11/10/2016 10:15

Congratulations to your daughter.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:18

If you do well academically you are going to to better all through life. Why do you need a certificate as well?

Really, what a mean view of the world.

Actually I know plenty of people who showed promise who fell by the way side, nothing is a guarantee of anything in this life.
How cruel to expect a small child with no sense of life's long road and what it may or may not hold for them - to withhold a certificate or praise I say Lifes Long Road but also - life is fragile and you can be whipped off this planet at any moment.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:19

Is there any suggestion that the OP's dd is in the wrong groups at school?

sorry I may have read the op in correctly but it seems the op is surprised /annoyed that her dc has passed the exam and yet has been in the middle groups at school.

I would expect a dc passing the test to be in top sets.

FleurThomas · 11/10/2016 10:19

You can be coached through the 11 + though, like any exam with right or wrong answers. I've known 11/12 year olds coached through a GCSE maths/science exam in the same way. It doesn't mean they know enough about the subject to apply it. If 11 plus were really an indication of intelligence (and intelligence were an indicator of academic success) then all grammar schools in all areas would be better performing than state schools and that's just not the case.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:21

Feel annoyed with school because they have left dd in the middle sets and not helped her to progress

the actual quote - this is my evidence that I present before the judge and Jury on Grammar school matters.

justgivemeamo · 11/10/2016 10:22

But on the other hand Fleur it can mean they do know enough about a subject too.

FannyWincham · 11/10/2016 10:24

OP hasn't come back but if you are still reading, monkeytree, see this as an opportunity to teach your daughter not to seek out or set too much store by external validation of her achievements. It will be an important lesson for her to learn before entering the very competitive environment of a grammar school.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 11/10/2016 10:27

I think you're happy and proud of her and two friends have said "well done"
I really don't think you can expect congrats from everyone else about this - and yes, they may be dealing with their own feelings after the results affecting their own DC.
Congrats to her from me though

GetAHaircutCarl · 11/10/2016 10:27

bert indeed those who do well at school tend to do better in life.

Though not always, and I suppose it depends what one means by 'better'. There is a definite law of diminishing returns on exam results.

However, there are many other things that help one do well life that people feel justified in celebrating. Nay fall over themselves to celebrate. It is strange which things we choose to consider acceptable high-five fodder and which things are considered to be unmentionable.

Pythonesque · 11/10/2016 10:36

I absolutely get where you are on celebrating children's achievements. Have seen a few variations over the years both with my sister and I, and our children. I recall keeping quiet about getting a scholarship (private school, overseas, primary department had a scholarship reserved to the senior section), especially as it was a school I was relieved to leave on a scholarship elsewhere ...

How you reward your children is also tricky. The first time my daughter auditioned for a cathedral choir we got one bit right - I remember sharing with the school chaplain my plan to give her the first Harry Potter book to read as a reward after whichever outcome ... Worked quite well! [and she got in the following year]

Well done to your daughter and I hope she can look forward to next year.

BertrandRussell · 11/10/2016 10:39

I believe in congratulating and celebrating children who work hard. Achievement in sport and art generally involve hard work and commitment. Passing the 11+, if it's supporters are to be believed, merely indicate that you were born cleverer than a % of other people. Not sure why this is something you need to be congratulated on.

MumTryingHerBest · 11/10/2016 10:40

monkeytree I praise my DCs for effort rather than the outcome. I'm not in a position to praise your DC for the same as I have no idea how much effort they put into the 11 plus.

I don't see why a DC who has rocked up on the day and passed a test should get more praise than a DC who has worked hard for months and failed the test or worse still missed the pass mark by 1 or 2 points.

I'm guessing my DCs are fortunate as both their primary schools acknowledge all forms of effort. Awards are given for outstanding pieces of work (maths/English/Science etc.), a special mention is given to DCs who perform well in the context of their own abilities i.e. exceeded expectations, certificates are presented in assembly for completing the Summer reading challenge, certificates/medals/congratulations etc. are awarded for competing in external maths challenges/writing competitions etc., praise is given for participating in music concerts/gymnastics/art competitions, praise is given for sports achievements, certificates are given for attendance and certificates are awarded for participating in the Children’s University scheme.

From what I have seen and been told by my DCs, sports awards far from dominate the celebration assemblies.

Academic achievement is very openly celebrated after GCSE/A Level results. There are a large number of "jump in the air" pictures splattered around the media every year often accompanied by a roll call of the top achievers at a number of schools.

MoonriseKingdom · 11/10/2016 10:46

Proponents of the grammar system like to insist that it's not about competition, or privilege. Definitely not. It's simply about ensuring that children are in the right school for their needs. So, no congratulations required - unless you are also going to congratulate the children who haven't been selected, and who are therefore, presumably, also going to attend a school that meets their needs.

Agree with you notanetter. Sadly the truth that this thread shows is that the 11+ will make children will feel like failures for not being selected.

I am not sure it can be compared with sports. I was good at academics hopeless at sports at school. It didn't matter. A tiny percentage will go on to play sports professionally. For most sporting achievement or lack of it will have no long term impact on their lives. By contrast it is drummed in from an early age that academic achievement will dictate your future job, salary, lifestyle etc.

Badbadbunny · 11/10/2016 10:48

all grammar schools in all areas would be better performing than state schools and that's just not the case.

But not everyone takes the 11+ and some of those who pass it choose not to go to a grammar, so you can't use that argument. In fact, if you live in the catchment area of a highly performing comp, you're less likely to take the 11+ to get into a grammar.

Konyaa · 11/10/2016 10:52

Achievement in sport and art generally involve hard work and commitment.

So does academic excellence. They, like for art and sport, are not usually enough on their own, and a mix of finances resources exposure parenting pushiness etc create diverse conditions for budding artists athletes and scientists alike. The story of a privileged kid good at sports is different from one that's not.

But these all ALSO need hard work and commitment. Academic achievement isn't all down to being born clever. From kindergarten till my phd, I found I had to work jolly hard to do well, from boring rote learning facts like knowing the height of the highest peak in Afghanistan to being able to produce articulate, coherent, critical and persuasive arguments in my doctoral thesis. A privileged background ( it's relative, even so), and brain cells were part of the mix, but most certainly, hard work and commitment, were invoked.

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