Should I get between DH and this MIL?

[Madinche1sea]

I don't think I can face dealing with MIL today
Just for background - MIL was unfortunately widowed last year. She had been previously living in Argentina with late FIL, but did not wish to remain there alone. It was decided that she would come and live with us in London and we would convert our basement into an apartment for her.
So three months of renovations earlier this year. MIL was living in our house with us and was consulted all the way about choice of flooring, decor, etc. When the work was more or less completed, she then decided that she didn't want to live "down below" in a basement after all! Btw, it was not at all dark or pokey - we had even had the back garden re-levelled so that she had direct access to it via sliding glass doors.
Anyway, DH is used to his mother being quite high maintenance, so got her an apartment with 24 hour security down the road. She moved in early August and seems quite happy with this arrangement.
The problem is that she now expects me to visit her EVERY day. During the week, I'm expected to facilitate her contact with the outside world. DH has organised various home- help / cleaners for her, but she shouts at them all, accuses them of stealing from her, etc. So this is all falling to me as a result. I think she's gone through 3 different companies now. She is 68, but looks early 50's. Very good health and one of the most glamorous women I know.
When she lived with us, she was on a mission to get me cooking more Persian food (she's originally from Iran). She says DH should not be deprived of this and it is also our DC's heritage (we have 4 DC). Now she still comes down on Sunday mornings to "help" me cook all this food as she sees fit. Yesterday was a nightmare. She came when DH was at rugby and I was trying to supervise 4 lots of homework. She took over the whole kitchen to "help" me make all this food when I would have rather just waited for DH to come back and gone out for lunch. I was exhausted and close to tears by the evening because of her.
Then, in the night, she called DH at 3am (she often does this) because she was having one of her "panic attacks" / suspected she had an intruder. DH walked down there and calmed her down. When he got back it was 4.40 and he had to leave for his flight at 5.30 anyway.
Now DH is away until Fri and I don't think I have the patience to deal with her this week. I do feel sorry for her. She was very dependent on her husband and I appreciate she is getting older. Am I being reasonable, or should I just say nothing to DH and accept how she is as an elderly person and his mother?

It was a struggle, we did reach a compromise in the end and she still does overreach boundaries but eventually I had to make it clear it was either life with me or with his mother. DH's parents are nominally Muslim (as is he) but none of them practise - more 'cultural' muslims IYSWIM in the way that lots of British people identify as Christian but I do think it's part of the culture to respect the matriarch. In the end I had to put my foot down hard and say no repeatedly to things I didn't want to do and bugger the consequences. There was a power struggle for a while - we'd have every trick in the book to get things to go her way (crying, name calling, relatives ringing, showing up uninvited, manipulating the children...literally everything!).

I think it's really easy if you haven't married someone from a different culture to just say your DH should step up but, if he's like mine he will find it really hard to do because he's been brought up not to oppose or upset her or there will be almighty sulks and hellish tension. In the end it was easier for us to adopt the approach that we would never agree to anything outright, he wasn't to agree to things without my say-so and changed the relationship so that everything is agreed through me. If she's like the Iranians we know (and we know a lot!) most of the family and social arrangements are sorted out through the women anyway so it will be normal to her but your husband may hide behind you (as mine does!).

Also, DH was not keen on me going back to work because he thinks it's all too much.

You could find it liberating. Start thinking about yourself. The longer you're out of work, the harder it will be to get back into it.

my home is your home".

Was that mi casa su casa? 😂

Sandy - yes I'm trying to get back to work part time and trying to resist the guilt tripping in the process.

Great. I posted without seeing this.

OP, do you have any hobbies or anything you do for yourself now that the kids are at school? Just wondering how you can find a way to put some distance without being too obvious about it!

Btw 68 is not old!!!! She sounds like she knows what she is doing. My ILs are both 68 and MIL can cycle miles across rough terrains (she does a lot of off road cycling) for hrs and hrs pretty much every day.

That's very interesting thanks Boggis. DH's method just seems to be to pacify his mother really. He would never get angry with her, even if she was raving in at him, which she does. It's as if she can do what she likes. His brother is the same in the U.S. DH feels responsible for MIL as well now and maybe he feels sorry for her because of his father. The FIL was Argentinian, not Iranian. He was a nightmare and a bully in general, though he always seemed to idolise MIL at least.
DH is not really one to show his emotions. He's been very kind to my mother over the years, which is why I'm trying not too get too frustrated with his. Also, there is s huge Iranian community on our doorstep and MIL knows a lot more people from back in the day than she lets on. Maybe she just needs more time? She often seems to bump into people in the street who know her, but then she gets very vague when I ask who they are.

Mad as a brush!

My grandmother is 94 and lives alone. She looks after herself and doesn't make any fuss. Your MIL needs to get a grip.

I dont think you need to be Persian to do the whole guilt tripping thing, your MIL reminds me very much of my (very English) grandmother, right down to the jewellery thing, which my otherwise fairly normal mother now has inherited. My grandmother was probably narcissic, she had to have treatment at one time, although no one ever really spoke about it, and I dont know what the official diagnosis was. Perhaps you could google narcissic mothers and see if it does fit. There is some good advice on those sites on how to deal with them including establishing boundries.

I am astounded that she would watch you spend so much money and put in so much effort to get the place ready for her, including leveling out the garden (huge job!) only for her to change her mind at the 11th hour and decide to live elsewhere. She has no concept of anything beyond the end of her own nose.

Of course, it is inadvertently good for you that she made this ungracious decision, but it does illustrate how self absorbed and unrealistic she is regarding her own importance and what she thinks other people are obliged to do for her.

You have every right to disillusion her of what she may expect from you. I want doesn't get.

Thanks everyone

Umi - yes I do get to do things for myself now that DC4 is at school and I'm very privileged in this respect, I know this. I have been feeling a bit rushed / guilty all the time though, because I'm aware I need to fit her in as well.

Ralphi - sounds like an interesting read - thank you!

Pictish - well, the cost of the basement was huge tbh, not to mention the inconvenience of it all and the fact that I was overseeing the whole thing. What makes me most angry, is that I would love to have downstairs as an open-plan area for the kids as they grow up, but it seems madness to tear down walls now, especially as we had a new bathroom and kitchenette put in down there. I suppose my DM can stay in it when she comes from Spain, but she's fine to be in the house with us. To top in all, DH bought the apartment MIL has ended up in because he wanted to do this, even though she has her own money! So lunacy all round.
Then when she went to NYC, it cost 6 flights rather than 2 because DH took her to BIL's home and then BIL brought her back to us. And she does not travel economy. DH always has airmiles but that's not the point. I told him to think about the effect on the environment He said she would need help with her luggage and she shouldn't travel alone

MMM, its you DH thats the problem, me thinks!

Well I am starting to wonder about him as well and his whole general set up.

If she wanted to come in sunday morning and cook, i would let her, that leaves you free to supervise homework, and get a lovely cooked lunch.

As to the everyday visiting she can f right off.

Wow, and I thought my MiL was bad!
I used to work in Kensington and Chelsea and we had several Persian and Middle Eastern patients who seemed to behave quite similarly and we would often hear similar stories about the mother/ son relationships. It won't be easy to effect any change unless you are quite firm with her but that may cause tension in the family as a whole.

I think you do need to have some boundaries but I wonder if it would be worth considering deflecting her attention elsewhere. We used to suggest patients attend one of the culturally relevant centres that are dotted around London like this one Persian centre to try and combat loneliness and give sufficient distraction and company (potentially male company if and when she feels ready). Of course she may well meet other like minded individuals who will all complain about how their DiLs aren't giving them enough attention or cooking enough Persian food

Also can you get her a safe for her jewellery?
Good luck!

OP - your MIL is clearly very entitled, but your DH sounds very similar to be honest. Is this something that runs in their family? He should not be trying to talk you out of returning to work if this is what you want to do, for a start. He sounds very successful, but you sound like you have to pander to him as well. I hope he shows you the same level of respect that he shows to his mother.

Citizen - thankyou for the link. Yes it would be fantastic if she got herself set up with a new man. She looks amazing and could probably get one 10 years younger Not yet though, but you never know! Anyway, I'm on a mission now to get her reconnected with old friends round these parts.
Cuckoo - I see where you're coming from. DH can be quite "fixed" in some ways, but he is very kind and I do think he'd do anything for me. Which is why I'm with him!

It sounds like you have a traditional set up in your family OP, which is absolutely fine and nothing to be embarrassed about. However it seems as if he gets to do more or less what he wants to - I can't imagine how he can even fit in his own sporting engagements at the weekend when you have 4 DCs! This time now that the DCs have all gone to school was meant to be your payback, bit more free time, maybe a job, and it's just not fair that both he and MIL expect you to give that up.

Your DH sounds like a very kind man and his DM has him trained to do exactly what she wants. Which is fine until it impacts you.

I'd really pull back as discussed above, but explain to your DH that you're doing it for MILs sake as you were happy to support her when she was recently widowed, but now it's really important for her own happiness that she starts to build some additional friendships and network supports. Beauty of this is he can't argue with it as it's true !

Your MIL will see right through it though and desist madly to begin with - but that's ok as long as your DH believes you have the right motivation, then you can keep going without too much trauma to your marriage.

Start with small steps.

Tell her you'll have one day a week do outings with her. Cultivate some more friends of your own, go for coffee with them - switch off your phone when you're out. Join the PTA how could your DH argue with you improving the school that your DCs attend. By all means get a job if that's what you want to do, but don't do it just because you can't say no to your MIL as your DH doesn't sound the type to pick up any more domestic chores just because you are working.

Maybe you could get her lined up to do her cookery demonstrations to a wider audience i.e. not just you. Maybe invite some friends round one evening and she could teach a few signature dishes - she'd love being the centre of attention I'm sure.

Oh and also explain to your DH that it's important that your MIL cultivates some new friends so you have adequate time and attention for your own DM when she arrives. He'll surely see the fairness of that. I'd also be tempted to keep your DM in the main building not the granny flat, as then MIL can't have one over on her in terms of where she stays. Also if you don't I wouldn't be at all surprised if some emergency dictates that MIL has to move in with you - if your DM is already in the guest bedroom then that only leaves the granny flat she has rejected.

It sounds awful, but I do think you need to play some games here for the ultimate good.

If you want to get rid of her for the day can she come and teach me some cooking

I would love to be able to knock up some lovely persian dishes

There are some beautiful books on Persian cooking: try Claudia Roden and Sabrina Ghayour.

They have lovely photos and they don't give you any grief or try to guilt-trip you.

Rookie - wow you're super perceptive! Thankyou so much.
Yes it's all about the phrasing, you're right. He needs to see his mother's independence as in her own interests, which might be difficult for him but, as you say, it's true!
I just get so bogged down with it all sometimes, I can't see the wood for the trees!
The thing is, DH is very full on about work and pretty much everything else and when you're with someone who doesn't know how to stop, there isn't a lot of scope to "reshape" things, as in his role / my role, etc. This is the main reason I never went back to work really, because 4 kids is a lot and I know he will never change. He does boxing, kick boxing and rugby every week if he's in UK and trains for events like Iton Man and all this kind of thing. It's one thing after the next. He has no concept of housework, etc and there's no point asking him to do anything because his attitude is to just outsource it - ie cleaners, etc. but it's not sbout specific tasks, more about the kind of headspace 4 kids and him and the house, school stuff and general life take up. Then when I talk about me going back to work part time, he just doesn't get it "Why would you leave the kids. Aren't you happy, darling? What do you need me to do?" But it's not about him!
On the other hand, he has always treated me very well and I know we have a very privileged life. I grew up in a farm in Spain.
And yes, I'm fully expecting high drama from MIL when my mother comes over. You are right she will be better if she is in the house with us.
Sorry ranting now. Thankyou again.

Apologies - had got logged off and then got on with an old name for some reason!

Justgivemeamo - you're welcome anytime

It seems to me she is trying to replicate her status with fil in your family, and that doesn't work. We had much the same with mil when my fil died, and it was made very clear to mil that we were not going to roll over and let her walk all over us. Fil had dealt with everything, reined her in when she went too far, and after 50+ years of marriage, she was effectively off the leash for the first time, and she has behaved like an absolute bitch/prima donna/ Queen Victoria all rolled into one. We are now (as is dh's db's family) NC with her. We communicate where necessary via solicitors. Mil is an English woman of a certain type (think bulldozer, armadillo and alligator all combined) and acts as such. There is reality, and then there is planet MIL.

rookie is spot on, good luck implementing!

Thanks Sapphire. The thing is, DH is always on weird food plans as decreed by his personal trainer - eg. high protein foods or something like this. So he's quite specific about what he wants but MIL takes no notice and just does her thing.
Scary - oh god. I hope things don't get to the point of NC and we can somehow coexist on Planet MIL!

The more I think of it, the more DMIL sharing her cooking skills seems like a fantastic idea.
She gets the audience she clearly craves and lots of attention and it keeps her busy. Definitely one to cultivate along with the Persian society for her.

OP - take a leaf from your DH's book. He's happy in principal to support her to the hilt, but he ain't changing his diet or training regime. You need to be equally resolute with boundaries over your time.

Personally I'd start training for a marathon or something similar as well. Your DH can't argue with it - after all it's what he does - and it means you need to dedicate large chunks of time to training and oh DH can you give me some tips on clean eating please - what a shame we can't eat MIl's delicious food. Oh well, never mind.