To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

Because there was an £80 million investment to build a plant in Turkey, the loan was made to cover a massive amount of restructuring following the financial crisis. It wasn't a case of the loan paid for it, the loan was part of the entire thing. It wasn't a cause and effect deal.

The plant in Turkey already existed, already produced the majority of Transits sold in the EU, far many more than Southampton. It wasn't like it was created using this money. Its not as simple as you are making out.

Oh there we go again, you said all leavers were thick, none of us did.

The Turkey thing is a repetition of the same stuff over and over again, its not factually correct.

if only the workers in Southampton understood this I am sure they would have been absolutely fine with it

maybe they could have celebrated with their redundancy money and gone on a cruise

Yes

I don't expect the workers in Southampton to be fine with it, in actuality the whole thing was more a product of the financial crisis ( remember that with the big issues with American car firms needing bailouts) than it was the EU.

What I get annoyed with Enthusiasm is its portrayed as the EU stealing our jobs when it was nothing of the sort.

that's because I guess you have not had the job you have worked in for years taken away from you and moved with an EU loan and in a situation where you are unlikely to get a job that pays anywhere near as well and live in an area where there isn't the many industries that there is in London

you can have empathy and vote remain, I do and I did

its no surprise really that people voted to leave we should have seen it coming

"that's because I guess you have not had the job you have worked in for years taken away from you and moved with an EU loan."

The EU loan was not directly to move the Ford plant, in fact industry specialists say the writing was on the wall for Southhampton for years.

I have lost jobs before through no fault of my own, I'm very long in the tooth and can remember the mines and shipyards closing the the North East, along with the Steelworks.

However none of this is anything to do with the EU, and making it out to be so is untrue.

I can empathise with people who have lost their jobs I really can, but I don't think putting their own and others economic future at risk was the right reaction.

you don't I don't

but I am not surprised at all

the more Remain made threats the more they showed they simply were not listening to what people were saying. I don't blame people for taking that gamble they understood that things might get worse but with that it might get better for them in the future and for far to many they couldn't see a better future under the current system

I can see the idea of thing can't get any worse.

Unfortunately they are going to get worse, for many of those who voted leave, and not really get any better.

Take Sunderland for example, if Nissan doesn't make an investment decisio fairly soon the new QashQai will not be built there. This currently makes up about half of the production at that plant. Jobs will go.

In the end I see the courting of the disenfranchised vote by leave as one of the most dishonest pieces of electioneering ever, it feels very much like the Walrus and the Carpenter situation.

Anyone here who can find a remainer who is actually happy that bad things are happening as a result of the vote, I will give them a gold star. I haven't met one yet.

I am a staunch remainer and still in shock at the result as it just seems so inexplicable from every conceivable angle. I hate the anti-immigrant rhetoric that now seems to be being presented as mainstream / centre ground.

As an economist, am I allowed to say that it makes no economic sense? (I know that being educated / an expert is something to be ashamed of these days)... What makes me so cross is that many of those who voted leave are those who are going to be most adversely affected - basics such as food & fuel are going to be more expensive, EU regional aid to deprived areas gone, jobs will go (family member already had a job offer withdrawn), and tax revenues will fall so we will be lucky to keep funding the NHS at current levels.

It is the EU that has kept the Conservatives in line by requiring environmental standards, regional aid, workers' rights etc... Who is going to stand up for the poor and under-privileged with no EU and no functioning political opposition..?

I'm a remainer and sad that there are so many British people who appear to be xenophobic and inward-looking. I was proud of this country for being open and liberal and proud and confident. Now I see a scared, small-minded majority raising walls and closing the borders, trying to take down the 'elite' who make them feel bad, with their much-derided capability and expertise.

I am hopeful that it won't last .. I think most of our country in the longer term is better than that.. but we will see.

small your point about fall in income due to the devaluation of the pound makes no sense whatsoever. Say my income is £2000 a month. If of this I pay £1000 mortgage, then this amount is not going to change because of value of the pound. Similarly for other amounts spent on non-imported goods. I do very careful sums on my household income and outgoings (I do not earn £2000, that was an example) and I can assure you that I am not £3-4000, or whatever the pro-rata amount would be, a year worse off than a few months ago.

£3,000 a year would mean that you would be on average £250 a month worse off.

So we haven't felt the impact of the lower pound yet, but say we add together increased shopping bills because of higher import costs, increased fuel prices, energy costs, higher prices of clothing and holidays you can see how that figure could be reached quite easily once the change in the value of the £ is factored in by firms in relation to their own costs.

Purchasing Power Parity is one way of comparing the level of income, there are more, but its to demonstrate that the figures arrived at weren't necessarily all that incorrect.

BTW even non imported goods will see an increase in price mainly due to increasing factor input costs.

Yes thank you small, I can divide £3000 by 12. I was referring to the pro-rata amount because I don't earn exactly the median wage.

I still think your point is completely wrong.

But it isn't is it?

In terms of using PPP to compare household incomes the UK's has fallen against other countries.

In terms of the coming inflation we will be worse off than we were prior to the vote are we not?

Even you must admit that the fall in the £ is going to leave households worse off than they were. The figures are of course averages, so will probably not apply accurately to everyone but it is quite easy to see how it will leave most households worse off and you have to admit that.

I don't use PPP to measure my income. I measure it by how much I can buy with the money. If you are saying incomes may drop in the future, then I won't argue with you, they may, but it is not true to say they have already.

You should look at PPP to measure your income, because it indicates what your standard of living is in comparison to other countries.

This is the scary thing WT, real terms incomes have already fallen, we just don't feel the effect of it yet because the change hasn't been transmitted into prices yet, it will be in coming months.

However, I am being slightly disingenuous. To get Osborne's figure of £4,300 a year worse off, he took projected GDP using a CETA style agreement, and divided it by current households and used it as GDP per household.

So we're not using the same method to get the figure.

I'm 99 percent sure lots of people will suffer and I'm making damn sure I won't be here to see it... Dh and I were discussing a loan to move to Australia in 2020(we were 70pc in favour) since the vote we're now closing ties here and making the move in April "17 with a young baby in tow. It won't be easy but I am certainly not sticking around to see it.
I'm 99 percent sure people will suffer and maybe in 10 years it'll get better (maybe worse too) but it's a risk I'm certainly not willing to take.
I'm gutted

smallfox2002 which bit of we the general public of the United kingdom have voted to leave the EU do you not understand?

Which bits of not legally binding do you not understand?

Which bit of small majority vote that needs to be debated by our sovereign parliament?

Or do you think democracy starts and ends with one vote?

"We the general public" is as misleading as Davis claiming an "overwhelming mandate" a win by a small majority in a one off vote doesn't indicate either. Even then it is down to parliament do control the terms.

At the moment we have the referendum being used as an excuse not bypass the democratic process of the country whilst claiming a democratic mandate.

that's because I guess you have not had the job you have worked in for years taken away from you and moved with an EU loan

Southampton built 28,000 vans. The Turkey plant built 210,000 vans before production was reorganised. It's stretching things to assume that the only reason for moving production was a loan from the EU.

Britain and the EU give financial support to Turkey because it is in their interests to keep the region stable. This will not change when Britain leaves the EU. On the other hand billions of EU grants (including to the car industry) will no longer be coming to the UK.

The EU can carry on giving loans to Turkey when The UK is outside the EU. The UK will continue to provide financial support to other countries because that is the way of the world, whatever the wishes of the Daily Mail.