To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

I did not request that!

Bizarre move.

Thanks Niamer for starting this thread in AIBU.

The point is that culture, values and shared history are not country specific, particularly now that we can communicate so easily.

I have a pragmatic duty to people in Cumberland - we share a country, a taxation system and a government. without any sense of duty to each other we would have anarchy. I have the rights and responsibilities that attach to living in a particular country.

However, go back a few hundred years and we wouldn't even have had the same ruler. It's certainly possible that our ancestors would have fought each other.

I find scatter's sense of attachment to a 'homeland' at best an over romanticised and incorrect perception of history, at worst deeply worrying.

Or chat. I now can't remember which!

Lisa . Please can you move it back to AIBU? I did not request it to be moved!

Scatterolight - the point of my post is that this nationalist identity politics is the opposite of reason and leads to conflict and a backward looking society. Northern Ireland does not suffer from too weak an identity, but far too strong because such a strong identity only has meaning if you're identifying something or someone else as 'other'. Each community has a strong sense of identity and cohesiveness which leads to intolerance and conflict as they are unable to integrate with each other.

Roger Scruton has dulcet tones, but the logical extension of his reasoning is to live in a medieval village surrounded by a wall. With spikes on top to keep out invaders. Because then we could truly experience the intense feeling of community, Britishness and sovereignity, which the poor rootless metropolitan elites are missing out on.

OP probably means other posters in this instant. 😄

I am an individualist rather than nationalist. One reason I like the UK is because we have freedom to be ourselves and we tolerate each other even if we detest things about others around us.

In a sense the Brtish are not really that much of a community of people. We are very individualistic. We like homes as detached as possbile. We want to shut our doors and not tlak to neighbours too much. We want people to arrive at our homes by previous arrangement. An Englishman's home is his castle etc. We are all different within those homes and we want to be able to pull up that house draw bridge and be whatever we might be even if it is vastly different from the person next door but live in tolerance of that difference.

I don't agree with any vision of Arcadia Scruton might have. The traditional English nomad and then farmer kept to himself. Hell was and often remains other people.

Nationalist identity politics played a massive part in this, the meotropolitan elites ( like London doesn't have more people on minimum wage than anywhere else) is also a myth.

We're just bad because we voted to remain, and we earn all the money.

Tell you what lets put a wall around London, let us keep our taxes, see how the rest of the country gets on without our net contributions.

Well, they're not for you, Merrymouse, but it's a generalisation to say that applies to others.

I do feel I have culture, values and shared history with other parts of the UK.

I feel that the culture of this country through education and spending and general ethical feeling should reflect and inform about the UK.

I don't think I can make pragmatic decisions or be part of national political conversation about either people of Iranian descent or the population of Northumberland or people who are both those things unless I am culturally informed about them.

What Brexit has highlighted (but not revealed from nowhere) is that there are people who think it is okay to see immigrants to Britain or people from other UK regions as somehow 'foreign' and not culturally to do with them.

Why shouldn't it be moved to the 50 million other.threads on the appropriate platform on here.

Or is the op special.

OP probably means other posters in this instant. 😄

Oh . Thank you. Still preferred it as it was. Shafted again!

Huge apologies for the confusion Niamer - we've moved it back for you now.

Best wishes
Lisa
MNHQ

Dear MNHQ will you please stop hiding all the Brexit threads. This is the biggest thing to affect the UK since WW2. It is relevant and not to be hidden away.

You're not bad Smallfox, but you are perhaps rather thoughtless if you don't appreciate much of what makes London London belongs to England or the UK, and you can't put a figurative wall around it.

The BBC, parliament, the civil service, the national museums, libraries and arts, the Bank of England and so on.

Thank you Lisa
Sorry everyone, yet more remainer tantruming .

Dear MNHQ will you please stop hiding all the Brexit threads. This is the biggest thing to affect the UK since WW2. It is relevant and not to be hidden away.

Tbf MNHQ can't win.

There were loads of people complaining during and after the ref that active threads was being cluttered with threads and that at least with it's own board people can hide it if the want to.

Well, on the basis of the reasons for the leave vote, London is a net contributor to the rest of the country, why shouldn't it get what it wants from the vote and get to remain?

Also aren't really the things that we have culturally European rather than uniquely British?

What Brexit has highlighted (but not revealed from nowhere) is that there are people who think it is okay to see immigrants to Britain or people from other UK regions as somehow 'foreign' and not culturally to do with them.

I think the issue is that some people are terribly afraid of people who aren't 'culturally to do' with them and therefore seek to identify similarities that don't exist (some false idea of 'heritage') and pull up the drawbridge.

Culturally, some are British, some European and some Global.

But legally they belong to the UK.

If London were separate from the UK or England, London obviously can't keep parliament, the British Library, the Bank of England, BBC and so on. We need them to run the country!

You would need your own institutions if you were separate.

What makes London London is its diverse and vibrant population. Take out the people and you just have a theme park.

Also aren't really the things that we have culturally European rather than uniquely British?

The royals certainly. Not sure who owns them though.

Perhaps.

I don't know because I have lived in many parts of the UK, have family who live in different parts of the UK and have family members from other countries.

You are probably right that there are people who invent a shared heritage with other cultures that they don't really have. That's why there is such a massive debate around cultural appropriation.

But I think we can be culturally informed and engaged people, and behave responsibly around the curation of cultural heritage for future generations, without engaging in cultural appropriation or racism.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that London exists separately from its population.

I think moving it is sensible otherwise AIBU will be full of remain voters saying their particular sadness at brexit is special and deserving of it's own thread in AIBU and not in the forum dedicated to the referendum. And I voted remain but the arguments just become circular and nasty in these threads. No-one changes their mind.