I'm petrified of working for a female boss.

[earlyrise]

I recently accepted a new job and my line manager changed from male to female after I signed the contract. To put it bluntly - I'm gutted.

Despite being relatively young, I'm a skilled professional with nearly 20 years' experience in my (male-dominated) field and have risen to a good level within my career at a fairly good pace. I have a solid reputation among my peers as being diligent, reliable, popular and most importantly able to deliver. I'm a boss too and I really try to be aware of my attitude and behaviour with my team and I think I've done pretty well on this one.

Despite my success, I feel I've suffered at the hands of the female bosses who have appeared in my life. Without fail, when it's time to re-structure (which happens every six months these days) I've either been demoted or let go pretty soon (once three times in two years by the same boss). Despite this I've never received any negative feedback and they've always provided fantastic references once I was gone.

Over the years, I've tried all the tactics - be quiet, be friendly, not challenge, be more visible, be less visible, not complain, do extra work, wear flat shoes, give compliments, promote her among her peers, not be too confident, be less good, not promote my achievements etc...but nothing seemed to work for any of them. I gave up on my career and left my job to be unemployed.

When I reflect on my experiences over the last 20 years, there seems to be a pattern. The male bosses in my career, in comparison have mentored, promoted and supported me and done everything in their power to sponsor my success. It's been a different world and was able to be myself.

Is there anything I can do to make it better this time? I'm so scared.

No what you're doing is condoning their behaviour and trying to dress it up in intelligent words.

These women had a choice like every other person and they as adults chose to behave like that. It's very simple. We see things very differently. You condone it and I never have and never will.

No one should condone this bad behaviour from your previous bosses. They should not have tried to blame their behaviour on being women in a hostile workplace.

But, none of that means that the next woman boss you work for will behave the same way.

I've never said it would speaknowords

I'd never refuse a job based on who was managing and I'd readily accept the job if it were the right job for me. but I think the likes of whatthe try to belittle and stop people speaking about their experiences because they don't agree and I don't think that's in the spirit of mumsnet. But perhaps that has changed over the years.

wewere - where did I condone your bosses behaviour? I didn't and do not condone poor management. I asked you to challenge yourself as to why you picked out their sex as a dominant characteristic, in a way that is never done for male bosses. It sounds as if you and your bosses were all part of a toxic work environment, which is a deeply upsetting situation to find yourself in, but clinging to your beliefs about the behaviour of your bosses based on their sex is just what perpetuates these environments.

Oh goodness we're going round in circles. Any toxic environment was created by a group of women who felt they could behave in any way they chose, not by people like myself who came in and got in with their job as they had done for years.

Interestingly, I texted a friend whom I haven't spoken to in a month or so to see how she's getting on (she works in the aforementioned hell hole) and to see how the situation is...prompted by our discussion. One of the women has been moved to another department and it's been recognised that there is problem within the department created by these women. It's still ongoing but it's been recognised that it's the female leadership team who are causing the issues and from what I've been told they're looking to have a more balanced spread within the department. This isn't my opinion, I should add. It's what I'm being told.

At this particular juncture I work with many men and women who are absolutely brilliant a funny, happy and great at their jobs. I'm not going to change my mind that these women in my last place of employment have created misery for many and I think if I were to ask those who worked there, they would agree with me. For me, this ends the discussion. You're entitled to keep going of course but I've had a horrible time at the hands of the women I've discussed previously, as have many other good folk whom I know and like. I've worked hard to be able to admit that the work I did was amazing (and I never treated people the way I was treated) and led me into the awesome job I'm in now and you're not going to convince me that using "women" to describe them is wrong.

Can women be terrible bosses?
Yes

Are they terrible bosses because they are women?
NO

'One of the women has been moved to another department and it's been recognised that there is problem within the department created by these women. It's still ongoing but it's been recognised that it's the female leadership team who are causing the issues and from what I've been told they're looking to have a more balanced spread within the department.''

OK - now how about this rephrasing:
.
''One of the managers has been moved to another department and it's been recognised that there is problem within the department created by these managers. It's still ongoing but it's been recognised that it's the leadership team who are causing the issues and from what I've been told they're looking to have a more balanced spread within the department.'

You see - you have a problem with the management. It is totally unnecessary and irrelevant that these managers happen to be women. Do they also all happen to be able bodied? Would that be relevant to you? Let's try it:

'One of the able bodied managers has been moved to another department and it's been recognised that there is problem within the department created by these able bodied people. It's still ongoing but it's been recognised that it's the able bodied leadership team who are causing the issues and from what I've been told they're looking to have a more balanced spread within the department.''

Do you get my point? Their sex is irrelevant, it is the management style that is the problem.