To be a bit surprised that 60% of us think of ourselves as working class?

[BlancheBlue]

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/most-brits-regard-themselves-as-working-class-survey-finds

This really. Does this this figure surprise you? I thought more people identified as middle class or I suppose it depends on company and context!

Of course class is hard to define ranging from being "a state of mind" to people basing it on income, background, how you describe meals etc etc!

I explained subcontracting work out is different from hiring your own employees. If you can afford to actually hire employees then you are not in the same realm as your employees and I can't consider them to be the same class.

Take for example a machinist I know, decided one day to leave his machine shop and start his own - now he employs nnumerous workers. He went from being their colleague to owning their labour, he's not working class anymore.

Yes, and its really important to draw that distinction isn't it Natsku?
Otherwise you get the nonsense of someone saying that the working conditions of hairdressers don't matter because, after all, their bosses are also hairdressers and they are doing fine!
If your going to have an understanding of class it has to describe the actual relationships between groups of people

Whao, Threebedsemii your post of Sat 08-Oct-16 08:46:03 just shows what different worlds people can live in.

I've always found, being from Northern Ireland, that the English idea of middle class is way higher than anything I ever knew grewing up in Belfast.

Relatively recent categorisations:

Elite - the most privileged group in the UK, distinct from the other six classes through its wealth. This group has the highest levels of all three capitals

Established middle class - the second wealthiest, scoring highly on all three capitals. The largest and most gregarious group, scoring second highest for cultural capital

Technical middle class - a small, distinctive new class group which is prosperous but scores low for social and cultural capital. Distinguished by its social isolation and cultural apathy

New affluent workers - a young class group which is socially and culturally active, with middling levels of economic capital

Traditional working class - scores low on all forms of capital, but is not completely deprived. Its members have reasonably high house values, explained by this group having the oldest average age at 66

Emergent service workers - a new, young, urban group which is relatively poor but has high social and cultural capital

Precariat, or precarious proletariat - the poorest, most deprived class, scoring low for social and cultural capital.

Social Grade Description % HRP population (UK)

AB Higher & intermediate managerial, administrative, professional occupations 22.17

C1 Supervisory, clerical & junior managerial, administrative, professional occupations 30.84

C2 Skilled manual occupations 20.94

DE Semi-skilled & unskilled manual occupations, Unemployed and lowest grade occupations

C has never been regarded as middle class.

Originally the info was in table form. The figure at the t dibs the U.K. Percentage in 2014.

at the end of each category

Regarding Three Bedsemi's post . I think all three people mentioned are extremely 'well' off with person C Being a 'multi millionaire ' . I agree with Atenco , i don't think any of the three examples are working class by definition !

I think's it hard for anyone whose parents were 'house' owners and to be able to spend two years 'travelling' to be anything like 'working class'.

In-fact i would say that does a huge disservice to families that are actually 'struggling' week to week with less than £500 in savings !

Also quite frankly, person As life is an aspiration for probably the vast majority of the population,. The means to afford a Range Rover (or if preferred have the means to send your children to private or grammar school).

That is why the 'Class' system is so anachronistic in today's world.

It is used largely by people that have lost 'status' or the means to embrace full scale consumption as a means to ingratiate themselves !

Report in the Guardian. People who read the Guardian and can be arsed responding to Guardian surveys would rather cut their own arms off than admit they are anything but working class. Goes with the territory.

Luna. That is why the Labour party are Un-electable !

Their perceptions about people , aspirations lifestyles are so out of touch with reality away from their 'bubble'.

luna and people who read the mail or telegraph are so wholesome hey?

How did you take from my post that Guardian readers aren't wholesome???

Telegraph readers would describe themselves as middle class, Mail readers possibly as identifying as Ukippers.

It's hardly surprising that the left leaning Guardian has a higher percentage of readers who self-identify as working class. That's also completely different from what others would classify them as.

I'm more surprised by people assuming that being Working Class equates being poor and/or on benefits. My parents are working class, bought their own (terraced) home, both always worked hard and never claimed benefits. They have savings, new car, nice holidays, etc, they aren't struggling.

They aren't an anomaly, working class friends and family have never been on benefits, comfortably afford expensive holidays and own lovely houses. Working as a builder, chef, nursery nurse, etc, doesn't prevent you from having taste or savings either. Not even from reading books or going to a holiday cottage in the Highlands at Christmas for some!

Working class was used to describe the people doing unskilled work or skilled labour, anything not professional really, but now we seem to think it's all benefits, huge TVs and drinking on the front step, which is far from the truth.

Exactly arse

sandyholme the working class is the majority of the population. You're talking tens of millions of people, of course they have different lives and means and income.

Class isn't about how much money you have. A drug dealer can afford a Range Rover - that doesn't make them middle class (although they might be, obviously)

A 'Drug Dealer' is a criminal !.

The vast majority of law abiding people cannot afford a 4/5 bedroom house in suburbia , two expensive cars, private education or live in £750k house for a top grammar school catchment.

More than that though any family that can are most likely to own their own 'business' and employ staff, therefore they own the means to production !

However, when you class relatively well off people as working class, you miss the serious point of understanding and helping the millions of families that are struggling.

I also think a lot of 'middle' class people identify as working class, as a badge of honour , 'look i came from humble' beginnings, the truth being they were always middle class from birth !.

Of course class isn't about money, there are plenty of well-off working class people in my town, its about what work you do and whether you are an employee/self-employed or an employer (the latter not being working class)

How can you say a builder who left school at 16 is middle class? It's just not possible I'm afraid.

Identifying working class as a homogenous group who need help is patronising

I think it's more that people are desperate to tell you they are working class now. That's what seems to be trendy.

ShotsFired, that's because the 90s are undergoing a revival at the mo
See Pulp's "common people" song for reference.
It's v fashionable to be 'one of the people' again at the mo...

Several MNetters however tend to get the vapours at the very idea of being viewed as anything other than middle class

If he/she own a company which employs even '5' people, they own the means to production !.

This whole thing baffles and fascinates me in equal measures but I love that Grayson Perry interview.

Interested to hear what class posters would put the following people into:
(Actual, real examples btw)

Person A: grew up on estates to working class parents, manual blue collar job.

Person B: earns £40k per year (£80k+ household income), has cleaner & gardener, changes car every 2 yrs.

Person C: single mum on benefits, free school meals etc.

Person D: homeowner, has gone back to university at 41 after a successful career in a different sector.

I used to be working class.

However due to disability in the family I'm not working now. I've been charmingly informed this makes me a member of the 'under class'.

Nothing like a good kick and classification when you are down.

Mango there is no reason in what you've written not to think they aren't all working class

Person a is working class but no idea for the others because you didn't say what kind of job they have.

People should not be grouped into a 'class' It's bloody stupid.
There are wealthy people, poor people and comfortably off people.
Most people have to work. Get rid of the stupid 'class' nonsense because it creates snobbery, or insecurity in people.