To be a bit surprised that 60% of us think of ourselves as working class?

[BlancheBlue]

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/most-brits-regard-themselves-as-working-class-survey-finds

This really. Does this this figure surprise you? I thought more people identified as middle class or I suppose it depends on company and context!

Of course class is hard to define ranging from being "a state of mind" to people basing it on income, background, how you describe meals etc etc!

Oh, and we aren't into fancy status symbols. The cars we drive are practical and what we can afford.

I dont think i would be hugely insulted if somebody said they were middle class im not that sensitive

It seems to be the in thing to act in horror at any suggestion that one is middle class.

I know it is fine to be middle class if that is what you are

Malice I meant that in the way that I don't struggle for anything and live comfortably. So I don't think I could be considered working class and to claim to be would be patronising to people that struggle to pay the bills etc every month. But I honestly don't care what class I am.

Breathe, assuming that working class people struggle and don't live comfortably is much more patronising.

There are plenty of unquestionably working class jobs (e.g. various building trades) where people generally earn more than in traditionally middle class jobs like teaching.

so how many and what type of classes are there?

I think our ideas of what class is haven't changed to catch up with reality.

There used to be a big divide between working class jobs (labourers, miners, factory workers etc), and middle class (office jobs, managers, professionals, etc) and being born into one class of people meant you were unlikely to be able to get to the jobs of a different class (a few did).

Now we have much more class mobility, its not uncommon to come from a working class background and get a professional job (and coming from a middle class background is no longer an automatic pass to those jobs, so you get people moving the other way). So either people are always the class they are born in (despite how ridiculous that looks when a hugely wealthy person tries to assure you they are still working class), or they move throughout their lives (in which case the lines become pretty blurred).

And the jobs themselves have changed. Lots of the old working class jobs don't exist, the old middle class jobs have expanded massively, and are now regarded as working class.

Basically, I don't think the class definitions are actually at all useful anymore.

But the rhetoric is far too popular to go away. I.e. stereotypes that the working classes are the only ones who do the real work (traditional middle class jobs like teachers and doctors being just sitting about on your arse eating bon bons, presumably). Or that middle class people are all 'class conscious' and 'keeping up with the Joneses' (which is like nobody middle class I know). Or from the other side the contrasting stereotypes that the hard working middle class families are the backbone of Britain (which is available to all if they would only 'work hard') and the working classes are all chavs and benefit scroungers who exclusively spend money on fags, alcohol and big tvs (again, like nobody working class I know). It's all divide and conquer bollocks.

All the stats on people self identifying as a particular class tells you is which rhetoric is currently 'winning'.

Also I'm working class but I live very comfortably and I certainly do not struggle

Thankfully we can afford our bills live comfortable (within our means) working class doesnt always mean poor although we have been on our arse , many middle class people struggle with their bills too

Breathe But I don't struggle for anything.....I live comfortably.

I find it patronising that you think all working class people struggle.

I know plenty of people who (I suspect) would self identify as middle class who do struggle - mainly to keep up a pretence.

Sorry everyone. Like I have said multiple times I literally have no idea what makes people a certain class. I truly do not get it. Perhaps I am working class. I know for sure I'm not upper! I genuinely have no idea though but thought from how the media and politicians talk about it that working class thought they have some sort of struggle, not necessarily money I guess. I'm probably not helping but I didn't mean to offend anyone at all.

Breathe It's a fluid concept. For different people it means different things. There's not really a right or wrong (I don't think).

You have an idea (of what it means to you) as you said you wouldn't identify as working class and was under the impression that the working class existence was a struggle (it is for many I'm sure).

Your views - which your entitled to hold - were at odds with many of us. Despite what some shitheads on this forum say, we're allowed to hold our own opinions. If by reading on here you're opened up to different perspective and points of view- then it's worthwhile.

I wasn't honestly offended by your views - I just thought them to be wrong.

As you were.......

many middle class people struggle with their bills too

When you consider how expensive it is to live in the UK, run a house, look after the children etc, that's not surprising. Appearances can be deceiving.

I agree with others that I'm surprised it's so low. Most of the uk is working class the majority of people don't have anywhere near the income, education or professional status to be middle class.
I think mn has a disproportionately large amount of middle class posters and white collar workers so it makes it seem as though that group represent more of society than they really do.

How do you define middle class?

Not that I like these definitions but never one to shy from chucking in an opinion....

I don't think you can change "class". If you are born working class, you'll stay working class, regardless of how highly educated you become, how much you earn, or whether you actually work. It is when ones children are born into the "acquired class lifestyle" that the label changes.

I was born into a working class family with a working class lifestyle. I am working class. Any children of mine would be middle class though, as they'd have parents who are both highly-educated professionals, great income, a tendency to chatter about politics and who eat quinoa.

I'm just amazed that anyone cares about class crap. Why the need to put people in boxes?

Researchers don't tend to just divide people as working class or middle class but they do need to put people into boxes, because there are huge social and financial divisions in society, and if you meld them all into one big 'class' you can't see them very well. Class is quite an old and crude concept, and now people talk about 'socio-economic status' and it matters very much if you are at the lower end of the scale, as you are likely to have more illnesses, be poorer, not so likely to access higher ed, and die younger.

All the people who live middle-class lifestyles and do middle-class jobs might prefer the identity of working-class, if that's what their background is from, but their mortality rates and general life chances will be advantaged.

By claiming we're all the same, and all 'working class', it could hide some really huge inequalities. That's not to say people's can't say they are working class if they feel working class, but they might forget how advantaged they are compared with other people who really are left behind by current labour/financial circumstances (as someone said, not so many routine/manual jobs left), with few resources to get them out.

I can see the point of socio-economic data collection to address issues at a population level but a self-identified class label at an individual level?

I would define middle class - as not being totally dependent on your wages. You have back up money - from inheritance or family. I don't mean unlimited amounts of cash, but if you were out of work for three months it would be no hardship.
I'm not skint, but if I loft my job tomorrow I would be panicking if I didn't have another job within a month.
I think there are different levels of working class. There are people who don't have a bean - but just about get by (as in surviving). And people like my who work full time - have no debts but nothing left over. I have no big lifestyle and live in a cheap area but no savings.
I am definitely workhng class. My youngest son thinks working class means being on benefits. I'll have a word with him on that one..

My mum thinks she's working class. She plays croquet and buys organic food from waitrose .

"Why the need to put people in boxes?"

To provide targeted marketing opportunities for organisations
So that students can pass sociology exams

I don't like the idea of putting people in boxes, but at the same time I think government ministers and the like need to know how people live.
I grew up in liverpool and lived in Manchester when I went to Uni. I still spend a fair amount of time in Manchester as many of my uni friends live there.
It's a bit different from Cold Feet. In the latest series, the skint couple are struggling as one of the characters is a taxi driver and also working as a carer.
But the whole think looks so unrealistic for the north really (as it would as it's a tv series and not real life). The salaries are so crap in the north west, you either need to get lucky or have a director position to live a middle class lifestyle.
Unless I've missed the boat at some point.