To be a bit surprised that 60% of us think of ourselves as working class?

[BlancheBlue]

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/most-brits-regard-themselves-as-working-class-survey-finds

This really. Does this this figure surprise you? I thought more people identified as middle class or I suppose it depends on company and context!

Of course class is hard to define ranging from being "a state of mind" to people basing it on income, background, how you describe meals etc etc!

pickled ever been to Didsbury?

I think the definition of middle class has changed. It's used to be the educated, financially comfortable, home owning middle. Now many of those people are struggling so I guess now there is a much clearer 'struggling middle class' and 'upper middle class'. Working class I would define as non professionals, non university educated roles and earning at survival level rather than thriving level. Maybe there simply is no working and muddle class definitions anymore.

I'm surprised 60% of people give a toss about 'class' at all.

I come from a middle class background
DH comes from a working class background

Are our DCs middle or working class? Discuss :)

I've never been to Didsbury I must confess. I've never visited but suspect it's like the Cheshire set.
A minority i suppose.
There are pockets of wealth in the north west (didsbury, knutsford) but it really is s pocket. Most people in the north west are skint - from my experience anyway.

I do not think of myself as middle class, but equally don't think of myself as working class either. We come from a very working class town and still live there. I'm not sure you really ever get away from those roots. But I feel I'm in a very inbetweeny place.
If I was m made to choose. If say I'm working class simply by a process of elimination as I definitely do not feel middle class.
Actually it's not something I've given much thought to until a recent aquaintance described something as too middle class ( and therefore not for them). It wasn't something I understood or identified with at all.

I think some people try to be middle class & their efforts make me laugh.
Shopping at Waitrose seems to be the tipping point

I think most people are wc. You need to be earning a lot these days to be mc.
Unless you have a lifestyle with no concerns about your finances, then you aren't mc.
Don't most people need 2 incomes to afford a basic standard of living these days, with not much left over ?

That's probably about right isn't it? Nearly everyone I know is working class. Maybe that's cos I am though!

Didsbury and knutsford have their fair share of council estates and high crime areas too.
They aren't anything special but maybe a step up in snobbery from the equal distance neighbours the other side of Manchester

only in this fucking go dammed country to we define our self by this ridiculous moniker

True, but that is only because we had an industrial revolution. In countries that never had an industrial revolution as such, the "working class" is the agrarian worker class and are often referred to as "peasants" or "villagers" or various words that roughly correspond to "bumpkin".

And the way these people are spoken about by more metropolitan citizens is remarkably similar to the way our political and intellectual class tend to speak about the working class: almost a kind of strange, indigenous orientalism.

One thing that is difficult about working class identity today is that I think it has a) got confused with regionalism and b) become a counterpoint to the traits and attitudes of the governing class: political, cultural and economic.

So you have 99%-ism, mixed in with regional culture, a desire for "authenticity" and a counterpoint identity to the establishment... and this had all come out as "working class."

It's a tricky one though. I live in a working class area, one of my neighbours drives a white van, I'm from a working class background, but am I working class? Not sure. I've a clutch of degrees and sell my mind rather than my physical labour. But I don't see myself as middle class, yet is that because middle class became identified with people I would see as upper class?

Middle class in my area used to mean you ran a greengrocers. Now Kate Middleton's supposed to be middle class .

I have always thought of myself as working class - I think this is more to do with my background e.g. I grew up on a council estate and most of my oldest friends are working class.

DP scoffs at me though saying this as I'm a doctor and we have a comfortable lifestyle - naice house, 2 cars, holidays etc - but I think this is a result of my hard work rather than class IYKWIM. But I feel more comfortable with normal working class people and do most of my shopping in Lidl etc... I think nowadays there is a blurred distinction between the classes

Its too complicated these days to go by working/middle/upper class. I come from a very middle class family (dad a vicar - one of the definitions of middle class) but his dad was very much working class wheras mum's dad was a poor landowner (farmer). I'd say I'm underclass these days as I've been on various benefits for the last 8 years but OH is definitely working class - drives a white van but we might become home owners next year. People shift through class boundaries so much its pointless to use them really.

Working class has definitely changed its meaning. Some people use it just to mean that they work. I always thought it used to be used more for manual (blue collar work). My mum's family are all farm labourers and builders and consider themselves working class. We are middle class as we don't dirty our hands. Money doesn't really come into it - my working class builder uncle has far more disposable income and stuff than we do!

Anyone here been in a working men's club? Thought not.

What is classed as "middle class" anyway? I find it all so confusing. Nobody in my family went to uni. However, all of them (except me) own their own houses after having relatively successful careers without any higher education.

I would always identify as being working class. Even if I won the lottery and became a millionaire I still would never think of myself as anything else. When I think of middle class I immediately think of politicians

I've been in a working men's club dinosaurs

I have been in many a working man's club.

My house is pretty much a working men's club - found a plumber asleep in the sauna one morning!

I don't consider teaching to be a middle class profession, or nursing, but both usually require a degree.

natsku you have won the stealth boast post of the day award

Hah a sauna is cross-class where I live, everyone has one and the middle class and above have another at their summer house.

'I know plenty of people who (I suspect) would self identify as middle class who do struggle - mainly to keep up a pretence.'

What does that mean? What pretence? Do you mean camping because it's now MC to camp, as opposed to going on a Sun holiday because it would be cheaper? Am I allowed just to have a preference? I like camping because I don't have to go far, Butlins because it's fun but not Haven because I've never liked the entertainment there or Centreparcs because it's dull and the food is crap, is that OK or am I pretending and how can you tell?

And why is it 'right' to deride a person who is deemed by someone else to be 'aspirational'?

It's hilarious that people think relabelling some schools 'grammar schools' will increase social mobility when being something called 'aspirational' apparently makes it OK to ridicule people.

I'd consider teaching to be middle class as it traditionally has been, and nursing working class.

Maybe because what distinguishes middle class people is that they behave in aspirational ways to communicate with each other, and if you don't pick up the language and culture, you find it pretty much impossible to break into certain careers - media, arts, the law at a higher level, Senior civil service etc.