To be fed up of comparisons with 1930s Germany in U.K. politics?

[jessica29054]

Surely a better and far less potentially offensive comparison is the 1980s?

Labour in disarray, therefore weak opposition, and a female PM of course.

Comparisons with the rise of the extreme far right in Germany have little place. The BNP are the equivalent to Hitler and his party and thankfully have little mainstream support.

they're concerned because remainers have told them that they should be feeling unwelcome and telling them that people don't want them here and they're going to throw them out

i agree and it goes this way in other areas too.

I am another who is grateful to the way you slice through this crap Bill

"Your initial post made it very clear that you disbelieved the 15 Poles next door story - you put anecdotal in inverted commas which you didn't do when referring to anecdotes of post Brexit attacks and you picked a deliberately inflated figure to make the statement look too ridiculous to be true."

Bill I can see that you have good intentions but seriously you are taking this online discussion board a little too seriously, which makes you over- or misinterpret things. I am typing on the fly so there may be rogue inverted and other commas. In actual fact i see both types of 'stories' as just that stories.

I'm going to add to what I alluded to earlier, and I will be prepared to get slapped down as is the way things usually play out on these threads but here goes: We are leaving, yes it's going to be messy financially and politically it has showed our political parties to be nothing more than a true shambles (with no exceptions). However, as I see it the real danger to our Country and multicultural society is this blatant and rampant dislike of a huge, huge swathe of this country. Half the population are being called racist/xenophobic, remainers telling other remainers, especially if they happen to be non-EU citizens, that they are going to be told to leave, one poster (not on this thread) re-educating her EU 'friend' who voted leave and then coming back on to say now her friend is 'terrified' another poster again another thread (I think) saying she is going to go on about this until 3016. if we carry on like this the financial implications of Brexit will pale into insignificance. I will continue to instill in my children tolerance and respect and not to judge. Something that is sorely lacking on here. Quite honestly if this doesn't stop we are all FUKD.

"Half the population are being called racist/xenophobic"
It is xenophobic to reduce EU citizens who live and work here and entered this situation as free citizens, to second class people by reducing their employment options due to the fact they weren't born in the UK. It is xenophobic of the tories to make their whole party conference about EU immigrants. As someone else has said odd, isn't it, suddenly there is no more Islamist terrorism, Putin poses no danger, what's going on in Syria isn't worth a mention and the NHS is mentioned in the same breath as saying we will boot out foreign doctors. The Tories are positioning EU citizens as the cause of everything that is not right in this country. that is of course xenophobic and incredibly dangerous.

as I see it the real danger to our Country and multicultural society is this blatant and rampant dislike of a huge, huge swathe of this country. Half the population are being called racist/xenophobic

And the other half are being cast as "remoaners" and metropolitan elites. You can't have it both ways.

I was talking to DH about this tonight, and I honestly can't see a good way out of this mess. The Tory party under May is very astutely making a play for the 60%+ of the population who think that it's OK for government to require business and schools to provide the authorities with lists of foreigners. The remainers, and indeed the more educated and liberal leavers, are horrified by this, but we're in a minority. And we're going to remain in a minority until it all goes to shit.

My daughter's response? (British citizen but has never lived there). "Why are the British so racist?", "I can't imagine ever going to live in Britain now" and finally "I wish I wasn't British".

That makes me sad.

Remainers are to blame for immigrants feeling unwelcome? Christ your deluded

Really? Well that's one hell of a delusion I didn't realise that I was hallucinating Eastern European builders. Must get tablets for that. But yes, that's what DH and his workmates are saying. They're pretty circumspect because a lot of them aren't massively enamoured of the EU either. A lot of them never intended to stay longer than the negotiation period after Brexit anyway so it doesn't affect them. The ones that are feel pretty confident some sort of agreement is going to be reached to allow British citizens in the EU to stay and EU citizens to stay here. I think most sensible people would acknowledge that is by far the most likely thing to happen and just hasn't been confirmed because nobody is showing their cards just yet. None of them has had any abuse, I don't know, maybe that's because they're big tough blokes being builders, but they haven't. And the only people saying to them that they might be deported are doom mongering hysterical remainers.

I am typing on the fly so there may be rogue inverted and other commas.

Wow. Getting inverted commas neatly at both ends of one word is quite some error. I wish my typing errors were quite so grammatically correct. Then nobody would notice because it would look exactly like it was done intentionally! Funny that.

you are taking this online discussion board a little too serious

Er, I am not the one whose predicting repatriations and genocide and insisting the country is currently engaged in some sort of race war and on a one way track to a facist dictatorship.

Billsykesdog The relevance of the story of my own redundancy - which would have been obvious to most people except the most blinkered was that, contrary to your statement, it would indeed have been possible for notices of (risk of) redundancy to go out immediately following the vote. Let me repeat again for the slow-witted: to most many people receiving notices of being at risk, they know that the end result will indeed by redundancy. They may well be in tears (it's not a nice process either for the sender or the receiver of such notices)

And my recollection of the threads when people were saying that they were going to have to make people redundant (and were told that they were lying) was that they weren't talking about hundreds (difficult for me to search to confirm my recollection as I'm using the MN app): they were talking about knowing that they would be losing contracts and for the sake of the survival of their business, they would have to make people redundant.

Companies like this one www.dezeen.com/2016/07/07/brexit-crisis-job-losses-project-uncertainty-architecture-construction-industry/ mere days after the result. Unless you're saying that that was a lie.

Or this one - larger, so needs consultation www.constructionenquirer.com/2016/09/26/arup-blames-brexit-for-planned-job-cuts/

Or here www.bdonline.co.uk/architects-shed-jobs-as-brexit-fallout-begins/5082489.article

I could go on.

Collectively, they add up - and we've not even left yet

Lots of imaginary redundancies

I was going to mention how much more difficult dh's job - which is to encourage inward investment - has become since the vote - but that would be anecdotal and inadmissable (but not less real) as well. On the positive side, it means that in his field, his role becomes all the more necessary (whether he can thole the politics is another matter )

You don't need to feel sad for my friend. She is after all, only virtual to you. But I do feel sad - and angry - for her, because I am an empathetic human being, who doesn't like her friends being upset. Her distress is real. She did make an analogy to 1930s Germany today, which resonated with me because of this thread (which she knows nothing about, as she doesn't "do" MN). You can continue to think she is imaginary - even though I know she is real.

Just as the rise in racist attacks is imaginary. Just as the fall in the value of the pound is imaginary.

For all I know, you are a hairy armed trucker from Russia who is deliberately trying to destabilise the UK.

I have actually met many MNers in real-life and for the most part, they are lovely people who have become real-life friends. So I'm not going to accuse you of lying or making things up, because I try to think the best of people until proven otherwise.

I will continue to instill in my children tolerance and respect and not to judge. Something that is sorely lacking on here

Me too and I agree

Where is she hearing this from? if she hasn't lived here then she hasn't taken it from here. I can well imagine how we are being portrayed and painted overseas for their own political gain. I hope you allayed her fears because we are not a racist country (although there is a small element of racists, anti gay marriage, anti-semetic etc as there are in all countries and to a greater extent in France & Germany) but to label 16m odd people xenophobic is just plain wrong and extremely offensive and is no where near on a par with being called elitist.

This is getting circular. It's not offensive to point out someone is xenophobic. If you're a decent human being you are offended by racism and xenophobia.

'And the only people saying to them that they might be deported are doom mongering hysterical remainers.'

Makes sense.

Bill I admire your patience to systematically cut the crap.

Hostile, narrow minded and xenophobic about sums up the latest developments. But we can ignore that as it was from an educated member of the elite. We should listen to the builder husband of an Internet poster. Not saying it's imaginary at all.

Let's ignore all evidence on anecdotall responses appears to be the cut of the thread.

Good to see bullseye confirming her bias once again.

pretty two of those articles are about the same firm. So two firms making 100 job losses between them? That accounts for the half dozen or so people on MN on the 24th apparently crying as they sent out hundreds of redundancy letters? I suppose if each firm had three HR officers each and all of them were posting on Mumsnet at the same time it's possible. But it's not really likely is it? Is that the best you can do?

But we can ignore that as it was from an educated member of the elite. We should listen to the builder husband of an Internet poster. Not saying it's imaginary at all.

Thanks Margo, you're demonstrating the point I made about selecting information to believe based on your own bias wonderfully whilst also demonstrating your inherent snobbery. You do realise that lots of people who work on building sites are highly qualified engineers don't you?

You might also like to check back across my posts. I never claimed that my anecdote was anything other than that - an anecdote. I didn't claim it as evidence of anything other than my own opinion and experience. I'm not the one who is claiming that reading posts on the internet is a reliable way of ascertaining crime figures. So less of the snarkiness eh?

This is getting circular. It's not offensive to point out someone is xenophobic.

Please point out specific examples of this xenophobia. Because I do believe you're talking shite. At no point have I expressed any dislike of people of other nationalities not called them inferior or unlikeable. I don't think I have discussed the attributes of other nationalities at all. I've disputed a statistic and also the reliability of internet posts and said that I don't believe Britain is a particularly racist country and pointed out that research normally backs that up. These things aren't xenophobic, they're a difference of opinion.

Unless the definition of xenophobia has changed to 'person who will not declare that Britain is on the verge of becoming a fascist dictatorship and deporting some foreigners and gassing the rest' then I don't believe you'll be able to find anything which fits the bill as far as xenophobia goes.

BillSykesDog - you can't invite me to discussion but say you'll dismiss as 'shite' what I say or make extravagant claims about hysteria by saying hysterical things no one else has mentioned. You can talk on your own. Or with the other posters on here who'll jump in to help. Nighty night from me.

in Europe the rise of antisemitism again is frightening. that is why i don't want to be part of the EU. i have a bad feeling about Corbyn too

The irony is the over riding message I get from on here and elsewhere is that "stupid people should not get the vote". The vote is a basic freedom, we are allowed the right to vote.

Who believe this should be taken away! If you want to take away peoples right to vote you need to question your morality. Because if you want to do that you want a totalitarian state. Which does tie in nicely with what the EU was/is becoming.

I dont want that.

in Europe the rise of antisemitism again is frightening

^^

One of the big reasons minorities were worried about the EU was racism, the far right, the far left. It is worrying. People moan about the UK but we try here, we have a long way to go. There are many lawless pockets of the EU where people with these views are hardcore and the police and justice systems are different to our own and do not control them, in fact in some areas they are the police! Its a tinder box.

Justgivemeamo - what are you on about? Your rant makes no sense. You are introducing a straw man argument about refusing the vote. You're all over the place. Go to bed and try again in the morning.

Apologies - I thought I'd linked to the Simmonds & Simmonds redundancies in the 3rd article (challenges of trying to copy & paste on the phone app without a preview facility ) - although even the 3rd article gives a slightly different and broader picture (but still depressing) to the first article

But all of these examples are just anecdotes and not real except for the people who've now got to look for new jobs

And remember that up until 23 June, Cameron had said that he would activate A50 on 24 June should Leave win, so contingency plans would have been predicated on this timescale.

As we've still not activated it, the negative effects already experienced are may just be a foretaste of what is to come....

they're concerned because remainers have told them that they should be feeling unwelcome and telling them that people don't want them here and they're going to throw them out

What nonsense. It wasn't remainers who taunted my Polish neighbours in the street on 24th June, telling them they'd have to go back now. Goodness knows where they were supposed to go back to, as they've been living here for 20 years. It wasn't remainers I heard on the underground saying the same thing to Asians.