To be fed up of comparisons with 1930s Germany in U.K. politics?

[jessica29054]

Surely a better and far less potentially offensive comparison is the 1980s?

Labour in disarray, therefore weak opposition, and a female PM of course.

Comparisons with the rise of the extreme far right in Germany have little place. The BNP are the equivalent to Hitler and his party and thankfully have little mainstream support.

That's a bit of a weak argument in favour of anecdotal evidence Margo. To put it into perspective, it's about on the level of accepting 'My brother's neighbour's, nieces window cleaner says that she knows a crowd of Iraqis who turned up in Dover on Wednesday and by Monday they had a mansion in Hampstead, four cars and £500 squillion a week in benefits'. Of course there is no reliable data to back that up either but it must be true eh?

Because of course people never self select data which backs up their own point of view regardless of reliability eh?

Much as you may want it to be true it needs reliable data to confirm it.

Incidentally insisting that 'facts' should be accepted without question or reliable evidence was very much a characteristic of the Nazi regime and it's propaganda machine in particular.

Also, my husband is not British and my children are predominantly not British but that doesn't harm my ability to interpret what is reliable evidence or statistics.

Are you denying more people have been told to F off back home since the referendum than before? You know that counts as a race incident and is counted in the stats don't you?

Bill I wonder what it is like to be a xenophobe/bigot and to feel the best quality about yourself is your place of birth? Could you provide me with some insight? Out of anthropological interest, I mean and only if you want. It just seems so.... limiting...... no offence.

Name calling continues......

Piglet was that in response to my post? It surprises me that you think being called a xenophobe / bigot is 'name calling', I sincerely do not understand why you would. People who hold xenophobic views and have bigoted attitudes would naturally think that being a bigot / xenophobe is a good thing because, eel,l that is how they feel after all it's their psychology and world view, why not own it? You cannot be a bigot / xenophobe and then sulk at being called what you are, that's childish

"Xenophobe is partly based on the Greek noun xenos, meaning "stranger, guest, foreigner". Unlike other phobias, xenophobia isn't really considered an abnormal condition; instead, it's generally thought of as just serious narrow-mindedness, the kind of thinking that goes along with racism and extreme patriotism. In times of war, a government will often actually try to turn all its citizens into xenophobes."

Nothing to be ashamed of if this is your personality, own it
It's just that I personally am unable to relate to this way of thinking. I see people as humans, dogs as dogs, cats as cats. I don't think about them as being from Yorkshire, Warsaw or Perth. I have a love for languages and travel and like to explore new places and situations and learn.... That's what rocks my boat, what rocks a xenophobe's boat so to speak?

There was that woman at the very end of a Louis Theroux documentary about white supremacists explaining 'I don't like foreigners... I don't like their accents, I don't like the way they look, I don't like their food, I just don't want to have to see them'. I don't think you can reason with such people.

If only know if this 5 min TED cartoon is historically accurate (it looks it to me).

The lessons we can learn are:

The government opposition wasting time squabbling is dangerous (which is why I wish people just left Labour & joined another party)

People telling themselves and each other that whoever's rhetoric is just for show must be careful (Farage has a history of being a fascist, or hasn't he?)

Blaming a recession and policy issues on a group of people that have nothing to do with it is how it started.

But Faw that sort of 'reasoning' reminds me of when my dc were about three years old. It involves a total lack of self-reflection and inability to see the bigger picture.

What worries me is when all the clever chaps, educated, hard working EU citizens have left we will be stranded with these narrow minds, I am worried about the UK economy if we promote a culture of closed mindedness. It is so weird, isn't it? I mean part of our economic success historically is that we had brave people with vision who thought beyond the obvious and set out to explore the world.

Faw that's a good clip. It makes me ender what will happen when we have left the EU and our economy takes a toll.....

I was wondering too Green... I've been thinking that those of us that have stayed and adopted citizenship might still be blamed (if it suits someone politically, such as Farage).

nyti.ms/2d7K3o5

(Earlier by 'those of us staying and adopting citizenship' here, I meant 'those of us EU foreigners')

"mean part of our economic success historically is that we had brave people with vision who thought beyond the obvious and set out to explore the world"

Ahh, right. And criminalized or wiped out vast swathes of people to get the cheap labour/lands they needed. The economic success was the brute force of Empire.

Wow, Green, what an insightful response. Of course I am so xenophobic I married someone without a who is not British and had three children with dual nationality with him. In fact nobody in my extended family has married another Brit since 1969 and my last Christmas dinner included family members who are American, Albanian and Polish but I did feed them sprouts which is possibly a xenophobic hate crime. I chose to send my child to a school where I know that about 20% of the class are the children of refugees, but hey ho, you know best from a few posts on the internet right?

Could you actually give a reason why my criticisms of the statistics given are invalid? Because resorting to insults just makes it appear you have no valid argument against them and are just flailing around in desperation.

There was that woman at the very end of a Louis Theroux documentary about white supremacists explaining 'I don't like foreigners... I don't like their accents, I don't like the way they look, I don't like their food, I just don't want to have to see them'. I don't think you can reason with such people.

But that's a hugely extreme example and totally unrepresentative of attitudes in the U.K. according to any reliable evidence (unless of course you're going for the 'my mate Steve's hairdresser's neighbour's cousin said' school of evidence).

According to any actual research though, the indications are that the prevalent British attitude is in favour of immigration but a more controlled version which targets shortage professions and skills rather than a general influx of low skilled labour. The sort of views expressed in that video are uncommon in the U.K. and have never really had much traction here. It's ludicrous to use that as an example of attitudes in the UK. Unless of course you're of the school of thought which claims that anybody who supports anything less than open borders is automatically a secret supporter of rounding up all the forriners and shoving then in a gas chamber. Which I suspect is the case for quite a few people on this thread.

I'll just leave this here...

Said in the late 1940s and is still relevant today.

To me I think it's pretty clear from reading all these threads since June (with an open mind and a respect for other people's opinions) what is going to be more damaging to this Country over the next 10 years or so and it wont be coming from the side that won the referendum? Look at the bigger picture people.

Southallgirl

How is the burka a threat to our way of life? It's no more a threat than a nun's habit. I'm personally of the opinion that a woman can wear what she wants, be it a burka or a thong. It's up to her.

As for the "chastising one's wife" well that could mean anything from verbally arguing to beating, one of which is OK and one of which isn't. It's a very loaded question. I'm sure most men and women would agree it's ok to verbally chastise your partner if they have done something to offend or hurt you.

Chakrabarti has demolished her reputation by finding no anti-Semitism with the Corbyn Party, and this creeping anti-Jewish sentiment appears to be reflected by the ECJ, for god's sake, who intend to de-list Hamas as a terror organisation

I agree, however there are some on this thread that think that the hate is all from the right and there are no problems at all on the left .

Wow south, well surely that is one 'problem' you are unable to pin on EU citizens living in the UK.

As for the "chastising one's wife" well that could mean anything from verbally arguing to beating, one of which is OK and one of which isn't.

Both aren't ok actually.

mimi absolutely I agree. The point i was trying to make is that I am very worried about our economy if all the bright, open-minded, multi-lingual and driven people are leaving and we are left with people who are not qualified to compete in a global economy because they have been told that the most important thing to succeed is to be British born. Bill I believe it is inane to demand talk about statistics in the way you are. This is a discussion board. People can say they have experienced a spike in racial abuse and others, such as yourself, are free to not believe this, it's ok. In the end, you will know what you know.

"According to any actual research though, the indications are that the prevalent British attitude is in favour of immigration but a more controlled version which targets shortage professions and skills rather than a general influx of low skilled labour. The sort of views expressed in that video are uncommon in the U.K. and have never really had much traction here. It's ludicrous to use that as an example of attitudes in the UK.
Head and sand comes to mind. Up to recently those attitudes were not openly expressed, that has changed, sadly. Who is going to do all those jobs that you are talking about bill? EU citizens living here compete with British born applicants. Many highly skilled EU nationals get recruited, headhunted etc and command their salary, no undercutting or sharing home with 15 others. And then, many of those low-skilled jobs, why please are Brits not going for them then?

omg south you sound full of shit.