To not want my PIL to pay for my DC private school fees?

[swimmerforlife]

For context, I get along with DH's parents perfectly well, they are absolutely loaded though and DH (along with his siblings) were privately educated from reception onwards. I grew up on the breadline and was state educated for all my schooling.

It was always the plan for our dc to be state educated as we couldn't afford private fees, however the subject of schools came up in conversation over the weekend and PIL offered to pay for both DS1 and DS2 fees if we decided to go private (DS1 will be 4 early next year).

DH now desperately wants DS1 to be privately educated and is willing to accept PIL offer as he thrived in private school, whilst I am not totally against private schooling, I feel my DSs will learn and be educated just as well at state. After all I am University educated...

Also, I don't want to feel I / DH or the DSs 'owe' PIL anything because the paid for our DSs private education, I really don't want to have that hanging over our heads for the next 20+ years.

Besides, DH had no qualms with our DCs being state educated before PILs offer. Now DH has gone and changed his mind after everything was practically agreed.

AIBU?

I have a dear friend in just this position swimmer (in fact I'm wondering if you are her ) and I completely understand where you're coming from about obligations and expectations. As you say it's about finding the best match for your child, which since the local state primary is good isn't necessarily a private one

There's sometimes a belief that paying demonstrates "caring" and guarantees success in itself, which really isn't the case; a bright child with good parental support will often thrive in any decent school, and after all you could always try state primary and review it at secondary level, by which time their abilities will be clearer

I agree that it's crucial to talk to your PILs, avoiding "private = best / how could you possibly refuse / end of conversation" for a real discussion about those expectations. In particular I'd want to know how it might go down in future if you want to book a nice holiday, buy a new car or even perhaps move house ... would there be disapproval, spoken or not, about your own choices if they were paying so much?

I would keep your options open. Have a look at the schools and their different entry points. If the local primary school is good then send them there for infants at the very least (as my friend says, why would you pay £7k per year for colouring in!). Then you could consider moving them at 7 for KS2, at 11, at 13 or even at 16.

If your PILs are serious about supporting their GCs they could always put the fees saved into a trust for them to pay for education or a lump sum for a house deposit in future.

If you think they will use the money as a form of control then don't accept it at all.

I have read all the thread but I noticed the OP said she wasn't comfortable accepting the money from the parents in law. However, if the parents in law aare very wealthy they probably want to give the money while they are alive and can see the benefit of where money is going. Putting it savings for the kids doesn't have the same immediate effect. You can't take your money with you and it might be more tax efficient for them to spend it while they are alive.
If they don't spend the money on private school fees the DH and the OP might still get it when the parents die when they don't get any pleasure from it iyswim

I'm as against buying'privilege' as much as anyone but I think about this offer carefully

If you did end up accepting the offer then you would have to spell out the ground rules carefully with your PIL.

OP, I think that's entirely right and the best way to proceed.

If you talk to them it will allow all of you to get a clear idea of what is involved and what you all expect.
It's possible they haven't really thought through all the issues too.

It's completely reasonable to talk about what you want from education including things like how you view a 'good' education - I don't see academic achievement as the sole purpose.
Your personal views about private education are entirely valid and if your PIL are reasonable people they will completely respect them .

As you say - it's not about state vs private so while you should hold on to your principles it is possible that you may be worried about some things which are non issues.
I'd talk to them and then look at the schools available and take it from there. The local state school may be awesome, the local private ones shit, the travel may be awful or 100 other things.

Whatever happens then you have explored it properly rather than turning it down on the basis of a lot of what ifs and assumptions.

The problem is that if you look at different schools, of course most private schools have more to offer than most state schools in terms of facilities, grounds, extra curriculars..........because they have so much more money! It's very easy to be blinded by trimmings.

I think it has to depend on what sort of schools are available to your DC and how much involvement the GP's would expect in return for their generosity.

MIL sent DH and SIL to private schools and is quite snooty about state schools. I work in a state school (reception age) and utterly love it, and have sent both DCs there. I flatly refuse to send them to a private school when we have a perfectly lovely village school less than a mile from our home (where they've both thrived). Private schools can offer things state schools won't and whilst I'd consider it for High school it would have been entirely pointless at primary age.

"The only advantages private education gives you is nepotism"

I think you can't possibly make that statement unless you know what the alternatives are, and what that particular private school can offer.

What about smaller class sizes? If you put exactly the same teacher into both settings, would the fact that they'd have fewer children to teach not represent an advantage for the children?

Nakatomi I can only tell you my experiences, they were positive, I cannot speak for anyone else! You sound very bitter, I am not trying to compete with everybody else, I was simply setting the scene as to how I went to private school. For me, it did help, ok, i had a very toxic and controlling mother and it kept me away from that. Everyone has their own experiences and views, this is mine.

Could you compromise on a good state primary and a private secondary?

nakatomi whilst you are of course entitled to consider private schools to be wrong morally ( and I have sympathy with that view though I don't share it), it's too much to say that nepotism is the only things private schools offer.

It is fact that young people who are privately educated are seriously over represented on the most selective courses at the most selective universities. This is not by way of nepotism...

Just for the record, my friend has a ds 9 who has been dx with ASD and behavioural difficulties related to that, he is extremely intelligent and academic, but very violent and volatile, and as a result, he has been excluded from 3 mainstream schools, and parents have been offered a place for him, in the only school that could meet his needs, which is far from adequate, as well as having to transfer again when he reaches 11 as it only goes up to year 6. They are fighting for the LEA to pay for a private ASD school for those with hfa, I tell you the facilities there are fantastic for children with Autism, especially his type of ASD who are hard to place. If they had the funds, they would pay themselves, no other SS in the area can compare, that is the truth.

For gods sake just go and look at the schools and choose what is best for your child. I hate this guardian esq "fundamental opposition" to the idea of private schools. In my opinion the reason they do well is that a greater proportion of pupils come from motivated families (who happen to be affluent). Just like the families in a leafy middle class state. Background is what sets children apart and families that are able to expose their children to a varied cultured background are always at an advantage. It's not all about what school you went to!! I second an educational trust being set up though (and maybe suggest this even if you decide to go state) as you may decide independent secondary is important or even to assist with university. It all seems distant when they are young but it all comes around quickly. For what it's worth, if they can afford it, I would be very grateful if my pil made such an offer.

People say the weirdest things...and make the most ridiculous assumptions 😂

Anyway, 11 yo is thriving in her private school. It's actually a really good school, does well on the leagues/tables/whatever but isn't at all 'socially pressured'. Holidays are varied with just as many going to centre parks as the Bahamas, there isn't a constant demand for extra money (not beyond the usual at state schools - photos etc) & trust me, there's LESS pressure academically & MORE time spent on 'social activities' than at most state schools. They're always on trips, sports exchanges, doing shows, learning in a fun way, having visitors into the school to do fun stuff...

I'm not sure how to say this without landing myself in hot water, but please try to understand my intent is good, even if I word it badly, I think part of what makes our school more laid back is the demographic. We have a huge number of people from different backgrounds, who really scrimp & save to send their children to our school, whereas my friends children go to a school that is 90% white British and there's very much a culture of 'nice cars, expensive holidays, school balls for parents, dinner parties etc'. It feels like the children at our school are sent because the parents value the education, whereas at my friends school it feels like they are sent because it's what one does & it's about making 'good contacts'. Both have their place, but I know which I prefer!

However, no Granparents are involved - thankfully. I wouldn't want the added pressure myself. On the other hand, I suppose it would be something I'd compromise over if I felt the children would get a lot out if it. Gah. Dunno. Depends largely on the grandparents in question.

I started mine off in the local school.This was reasonably good for all but one of mine.We then opted to send them to independent schools for Secondary .These schools are infinitely better than the local options .Your children are very young now but you may very well think differently about educational issues when the children are older.So why not keep your options open.Discuss whether you would be able to take advantage of their generous offer at a later stage.If this offer is a firm of control just say no.

Flowery

This is based on my personal experiences. My sister is an HR manager for a big company and those who went to a Private School or Oxbridge get shuffled to the top of the pile regardless of their grades. I've heard this off other people too.

And no, I don't think smaller class sizes help, actually. If you are teaching a child who is generally shy and nervous, they may find it harder to fit into a class of 10 people than a class of 30 people. I have several students who are intelligent, funny and brilliant kids, but they're very shy. I don't call on them in group discussions unless they speak up themselves, because I know what they are like. I can do that because a class of 30 means I can ask 28 other students to speak up instead. If you have a class of 10 with 3 nervous students, you're not going to be able to do that as it would be very obvious who you're leaving out.

Did you know private schools have some of the highest rates of depression, anxiety and suicide attempts? It's because private schools cater to a very narrow range of people and if you don't fit into that range, they don't care about you. They're getting paid and that's all they care about. All you are to them is a nice bundle of cash.

I also tend to think teachers are better in state schools. Why? Well surely we must be doing it for the right reasons if we're actually choosing to spend our careers earning a lot less than we could potentially earn in a private setting. Several of my colleagues have been offered private jobs and they have all refused. Why? Because we genuinely love teaching and want to give every child the opportunity to be incredibly successful.

By supporting private schools, we are essentially saying "Oh, you can't afford 30k a year? Tough, enjoy being left behind" and that is not right. I would ban private education if I could.

What about paying a proportion of the fees yourselves?

I wouldn't feel comfortable with PILs paying 100% of fees either.

If my friends ds went to this private ASD school, the parents are certain and I can see, that he will do so much better. They have an on site clinical psychologist, on site OT, on site speech and language therapist. So he can get the right behavioural input, that he would not get in a state school. The waiting list for CHAMS is long, and hard to get an appointment. They have the opportunities to do GCSEs and vocational qualifications that the local ASD SS does not offer, and they have opportunities to fantastic after school clubs which will help him socially. So yes private schools have their place as well.

I can't be the only one who thinks allowing shy kids to disappear in large classes is appalling practice!

I also tend to think teachers are better in state schools. Why? Well surely we must be doing it for the right reasons if we're actually choosing to spend our careers earning a lot less than we could potentially earn in a private setting

Completely disagree. As a state school teacher I have worked with and know good and bad teachers from both settings.

I also disagree that you earn a lot more in the private setting. You don't

Aeroflotgirl

OK, but that is one example of someone who needs a specialised school. I have a student with Asperger's who moved from a private school to our state school because the private school was shockingly bad at accomodating his Asperger's and had no idea what to do. Several teachers there said it was "attention seeking" and because he has ADHD as well, that he was "fond of made-up illnesses". I'm not even talking a long time ago, it was only 12 months ago. He is now at our school, getting treatment and support from our SEN team and is loving his life and education and is one of my favourite students.

I agree that to an extent state school teachers might be more likely to be in the job for the 'right' reasons. But that doesn't automatically make them good at it! Many are, many are not.

What an incredibly kind offer. Look carefully at every option for you. You can pay all school fees off at once - you get a full refund if you decide to leave the school for whatever reason. That way you get security and the money can't run out. Very often it works out cheaper. Private school often have fantastic second hand uniform sales. Top quality at a fraction of the price.
If your PIL are so loaded then you can work out the amount of their money that would go on inheritnece tax after there death. Maybe they would rather give it to you now, thus avoiding the tax if they don't die within the next 7 years. In fact under £325,000 is inheritence tax free. Worth investigating.
Your PIL sound lovely - what a kind, generous offer, even if it isn't right for your children.

Right Nakatomi jI can see your extreme dislike of private schools, very sweeping statements, have you any evidence to support this! No I did not go to Oxbridge actually, I did a vocational GNVQ and got a good BA in Psychology and an Msc from former poly, and started working in a related field. I know that if I went to my local comprehensive, i know that i would not have been able to fulfill my potential, with the bullying and the teacher put downs.

Nakatomi It is good that your school is good but please don't pretend all are.

I trained with people who were doing a teaching qualification because 'they didn't know what else to do".

GetaHaircutGirl

I don't allow shy kids to disappear. They are my students I prioritise for one to one teaching during a lesson. Everybody has different needs and I know the kids who will have a bad reaction if I call on them to participate in a discussion. As I said, if they want to participate and talk, they are more than welcome to.

Just like there will always be kids who will just get on with the work and not need any support, there will always be kids who can't wait to participate and some who would want the ground to swallow them up right then and there.