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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

353 replies

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 01:26

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

OP posts:
00100001 · 27/09/2016 07:13

I'd close the club.

And say exactly why (Mrs Moaner) and then go k tobsayvthat maybe Mrs Moaner could run the craft club in the future and wish her every success.

Place the Blane firmly on Mrs Moaner!

NoahVale · 27/09/2016 07:13

I think what you can do is change the group to a Beavers Group, there seems to be a call for extra Beavers?

Otherwise what a pity, in hindsight if you had just let the precious woman have her dd join you could have avoided this.

otherwise, appeal to the council?

Aebj · 27/09/2016 07:15

Sounds like a great group. I hope you are able to keep it going as an all boys group.

NoahVale · 27/09/2016 07:16

you say there are 25 boys?
surely you are full? Wink

BishopBrennansArse · 27/09/2016 07:16

It's horribly exclusive.
Are other 'undesirables' like disabled kids excluded too?

Yes I have boys. Two. And a girl. I teach them crafts, the problem is with perception it's in any way a 'girly' thing. In a way you're reinforcing that by framing your group as different to the norm.

ChasedByBees · 27/09/2016 07:16

I think this sounds like a nice idea OP. I would push back against this OP. the woman's actions are a bit self defeating though, as if you close, then neither of her children get to go. Confused

BombadierFritz · 27/09/2016 07:19

its religious or cultural reasons. many religions and cultures, im sure you know really, are quite funny about mixing sexes in a social setting, especially the more traditional or fundamentalist ones.
anyway, my dd goes to brownies, im not a hypocrite so I dont have a problem with a single sex group for boys either, but am also glad there are unisex groups so there is choice for all.

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 07:19

BishopBrennansArse
"It's horribly exclusive."

Is the Guiding movement "horribly exclusive" too?

SlipperyJack · 27/09/2016 07:21

It may be to do with the village hall's terms of use, or its constitution if it's run as a separate charitable venture. I used to be on a village hall committee and we were constitutionally forbidden from denying any group access to activities in the hall.

OP, do you have the letter from the council?

DollyBarton · 27/09/2016 07:23

I don't believe it's ok to have girls only and boys only activities at this age at all. I think your position should be integration of the sexes and support the boys to feel comfortable doing traditionally girls activities with a zero tolerance policy of teasing and letters home about the ethos of the club. I think the council was correct. I also think it would be fine to have a limited number of boy and girl places so that there is balance. No other club should be boys only or girls only. Disgraceful.

BombadierFritz · 27/09/2016 07:23

i'm fine with positive discrimination where the purpose is to encourage participation amongst hard to reach groups or groups that would not traditionally take part in the activity. boys crafts/cooking sounds like it fits that.

DoItTooJulia · 27/09/2016 07:24

What powers do the council have? Is it because it's their premises?

CoYoAddict · 27/09/2016 07:25

I agreeBombadier

RubbleBubble00 · 27/09/2016 07:25

I like the idea of a boys craft club. In an ideal society we could teach all our children together and it's all wonderful BUT we don't have an ideal society. Children are gender stereotyped, they do bend to peer pressure even if mum and dad are very encouraging/ open minded.

It's not a crime for either sex to have their own space to explore activities that are sometimes classed being based in one gender.

My 5 year old is coming home from school telling me this is for girls and that's for boys - he didn't get it from me and I always show him male role models of the things he's calling girly. I can only reinforce so much at home.

I don't have a problem with scouts ect being mixed as its lots of different activities.

CoYoAddict · 27/09/2016 07:27

Dolly I want to agree with you and in theory I do, but in practice the simple fact that this club has so many boys helping to break down gender stereotyping (which in the long run is most beneficial to girls) is precisely because it's a boys only club.

AStreetcarNamedBob · 27/09/2016 07:30

SO many people missing the point on this thread! I agree that boys wouldn't do the club if it was mixed as it would fast become mainly girls.

Rightly or wrongly boys don't want to be seen as being in a girls club when the activity is traditionally a girly activity.

OP can you upload the letter? I think you're 'safe' if brownies meet in the hall too. They wouldn't close brownies I'm sure.

somekindofmother · 27/09/2016 07:33

can you get a meeting with your parents?
tell them what's going on, and ask them to write to the council and outlining the lack of activities for boys in your area vs the abundance of opportunities for girls, and that they feel this is a case of discrimination, the girls are allowed Brownies, and actually I've read many threads and articles about how girls/women need 'safe spaces' away from men, but equally boys need the same... do people really think a craft club would stay heavily boy attended if opened to girls? of course not, the reason it works is because there are no girls, so the boys can enjoy the crafts without the politics that go with 'impressing girls'
explain to the parents that you will not continue to run the group if you have to accept girls so you need their support. as a parent of boys I would definitely support you. write to your local paper and your local MP. make the council regret the decision to even get involved.
is there any local business that would have space for you in the mean time that might support your cause?
I would fight it, there's no way is let that mother win!

Mrsemcgregor · 27/09/2016 07:37

Oh forgoodnesssake! What is wrong with boys having a group that is exclusively boys or girls having one just for girls. There is nothing wrong with same sex activities and socialisation. It's a lesson they need to learn in later life, no women can't join the men's Sunday football league, no men can't join the women's netball or the WI. It's life and the sooner kids learn not all rules will be bent to fit their ideals the better.

Bluebolt · 27/09/2016 07:38

It is a problem round here, the scouts all have huge waiting lists the guides have little if any. Most of the scouts have reached premise capacity so extra volunteers are not always the main problem. I volunteer at beavers it now has over 60% girls. The girls that do not get it often join the guides movement whilst waiting for a place the boys have no option. Until we can get anywhere near parity I would support girls only science clubs and the same for boys in areas where peer pressure and gender expectations still control numbers.

Strangeday · 27/09/2016 07:40

Op just another voice to say yanbu.

I hope that you can fight this.

Laiste · 27/09/2016 07:40

no men can't join the women's netball or the WI. It's life and the sooner kids learn not all rules will be bent to fit their ideals the better.

Hmm. Except that now when a man 'feels like woman' those rules are being readily bent.

Mrsemcgregor · 27/09/2016 07:43

Laiste - well that's an entirely different argument, it depends on your opinions on gender etc. But on a whole Janice can't bring her husband Ted along to her WI meetings because he feels left out. If you see what I mean?! Smile

Chikara · 27/09/2016 07:45

I was for a while a member of a single sex gym. It made a huge difference to me to able to exercise without men there, to be able to talk about pelvic floor exercises and consequences to the abdomen and lower back of childbearing.

There were male only gyms too.

My DS was bullied very badly at . school - he had to be removed - by the girls - because he wasn't big enough among other things. He would have loved a club like this. Loved it! And it would have helped him.

Could you set up a girls version of the club on a different day? Double the profits? Might that work?

TheNaze73 · 27/09/2016 07:46

YANBU, fight the good fight.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 07:51

I think the issue is more that girls have traditionally had Brownies as the ONLY girls only activity/club whereas boys have held sway over many activities.

Name one activity that actually excludes girls. Brownies might be the "ONLY" girls only activity yet there are no boys ones so they are one up there on single sex space.

DSs rugby club has mixed mini teams and a girls section for the older ones for example. Boys far outnumber the girls. DSs secondary school has a girl in their first team for cricket. The options are there. Girls might not want to attend other things which are mostly boys but that is what would happen to this club if they were forced to admit both sexes.

I have girls. I would be very annoyed and yes...it's excluding them.

I have both and I wouldn't be annoyed at all and nor would I think girls are being excluded per se. Everyone argues how wonderful it is that the Guide movement is girls only and, on those threads, people always suggest setting up your own boys only club if that's what you want.

If boys would not do these activities with girls present then they deserve the opportunity to do them. It's ridiculous to suggest that the OP should be teaching the boys that these things aren't just for girls - although I would argue that by allowing the boys the space to do these things without girls about is doing just that. There is no need to make a huge song and dance about it.

All that will happen by this woman complaining that her DD can't go is that no one will be able to go.

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