to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

[Waterlipe]

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

Challenge the council. I think what you are doing is great . If one mother cannot cope with her precious daughter being disappointed that she can't join it's her problem.

When my dd were little, I went to a sure start run group to learn about Afro hair. So it was mainly white parents with mixed race dc. Someone complained and it was opened up to anyone so it
became pointless.

It caused a right hoo-haa because there was a breast feeding group, a group for young mothers and a group for fathers as well in the same centre and because of the complaints about our group they all had to be opened up to everyone so the groups were no different from ordinary playgroups and nobody got any specialist help that they may have needed.

Not all Beavers and Scouts are unisex; it is a decision made by the individual pack. My son's Beavers is boys only which he likes

Actually, almost all Scout groups must include girls, they cannot decide to exclude girls except in special circumstances, such as religious grounds or being attached to a single sex school.

But that's a Scout Policy rule, not a legal requirement. OP, I think what you are doing is fantastic, I'd go back to the council and ask how they can justify their decision when they allow Brownies to run . And I say that as a mum to boys and girls.

Can you not run a girls only one on another night to balance it out?

Root I am a bit confused by that. Are you saying black people were excluded because they should already know about these things and the need was for white mums of mixed race children, or are you saying that white people were excluded unless they had a black child?

Why would it become pointless to open it up for anyone who wanted to learn about Afro hair? I can't imagine there was a huge take up from all white families or all black ones as few would consider it a pressing need. Black people would probably already know and the white people mostly wouldn't need to know.

But surely you still could learn about Afro hair regardless of who was in the group? Are you saying that people of one ethnicity were put off by people of a different ethnicity being allowed to attend?

Maybe you could suggest that they recommend that the mother of the girl could set up a parallel club for girls to do the craft too so that both sexes have the opportunity but in a single sex space. Not sure that she would be quite so bothered if she then has to do something.

OP, well done for starting your club. I have a boy who has just started dancing, he's been open to doing it for a while, and has now joined as another boy at school started so he wouldn't have people laughing at just him. He was the only boy who wanted to do the craft club at school and lots of girls came up to him on the school run and asked him why he wanted to do it. He does choir - hardly any boys there either, i know boys who would like to go but don't as they would get teased. I know my boy is seen as weird. Equally, no girls attended the school science club, which I was appalled at. Whilst we are so sexist with young children initiatives like this are needed to change perception.

I was at a volunteer event a while ago which involved giving children a piece of paper, and I was given pink and blue paper to hand out (coincidence, there are normally other colours). I asked each child which they wanted. There were many parents who corrected their child's choice when a boy chose pink and a girl chose blue stop making our kids sexist people!

Right, so Brownies can be single sex for reigious reasons because some girls are not allowed to free mix, but Beavers can't be single sex for the same reasons, even though boys from those same religions wouldn't be free mixing either?

Also at Brownies age free mixing should not be an issue anyway, pre-puberty. I doubt these girls are all in single sex schools.

As a lawyer says above, certainly appears to be legal. Push back. Failing that limit numbers to 25 and operate strict waiting list. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

Always pissed me off that girls had far more chance of getting into a club than boys - our beavers and Cubs packs had more girls than boys, plus two brownie/guide packs locally.

The main reason waiting lists for Cubs and Beavers being so high is a lack of adult volunteers. Why not volunteer to be a Beaver / Cub leader. Children of leaders get priority over places in lots of groups.

can you just move to the church hall instead?
the council must allow other 'discriminatory' groups eg young mums knit n natter, asian ladies lunch group, so there must be somewhere a policy on when exclusion is ok and when it isnt. ask to see that policy

As an aside OP ,have you asked the local scout group that you want to join whether your boys could get in if you volunteered to help as in most groups that will get you a place .

CuppaSarah

It is not that people are against single sex clubs as such, its that they are against boys only clubs.

The link upthread shows why.

I got my son in by volunteering so we could open a new pack. But that also filled up with loads of girls. I don't resent girls in scouting, but it creates a lack of spaces for boys to do that type of activity.

In answer to the "why do brownies not accept boys" - because the Giuding movement was granted a royal charter which designates them as a girls only movement. If my memory serves it was introduced when Queen Elizabeth and Princess Margaret wishes to join and has never been revoked.

Personally I don't see why the mother is being a tit but I do agree that you need to write a constitution and set up a management committee and fight the council. If you phrase it in a more professional way your justification here should grant you permission to continue running although I would see if any parent is a solicitor and see if they can assist

I too think you should go back to the council, in an unemotive way, state the facts re other single sex clubs, including brownies, being run at council places.

Right, so Brownies can be single sex for reigious reasons because some girls are not allowed to free mix, but Beavers can't be single sex for the same reasons, even though boys from those same religions wouldn't be free mixing either?

Under Scout policy, Beavers can be single sex on religious grounds, if there is a special circumstance requiring this. They cannot choose to be single sex just because a particular leader doesn't want to admit girls.

I wonder what would happen if this girl claimed she was a boy? Could she join then?

*Lighthearted

Scouting opened to girls because of falling numbers

Guiding has never had this problem so stays girls only, which the members are strongly in favour of

I agree that offering to volunteer at beavers/cubs is usually a short cut to getting places. Or you could even open your own troop

LOL Fay I think you might be onto something there 😂

scouts can have single sex units so long as they offer equal opportunity so girls one night, boys another, for example, not just for religious reasons. I suppose hardly any bother, probably shortage of volunteers

Definitely argue your case OP, I think it's a great idea.

Violet, I'm assuming you don't have sons? I have boys and I'm a teacher and girls do laugh at boys who want to do perceived "girlie" activities - and the "sporty" boys can be guilty of this too.

Addict

I'd cancel the club and tell everyone it was that woman's fault!!

"Under Scout policy, Beavers can be single sex on religious grounds, if there is a special circumstance requiring this. "

What sorts of religious grounds could require a boys only club?