to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

[Waterlipe]

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

Boney- I disagree with guiding' stance, yes. Hence DD is a cub.

I don't really know what to think as I don't believe any organisation for children should be single sex as it sends the wrong message to kids (once hormones kick in its a different matter and single sex has advantages).
I do get that it fills a need.
The council are only doing this because they have had a complaint so I think your next step would be to counter this with parents letters explaining why the club is redressing the balance locally rather than exclusive or discriminatory policies.

I would suggest you write a letter to the council to the council with the help of us vipers here, and distribute it to the parents of your group first asking them to add any comments in support of your argument. I think if they can see why it has so much support for being boys only you might be in with a better chance. Also if you can get some legal person to help you out as a favour that would be very useful too.

As a mother of 2 girls, another YANBU!!
I like the idea of having you having a waiting list and being full at 25. Good luck!!

YANBU!

Let us know how you get on (because it's baking / crafty)

Can you not just find a different venue that's not controlled by the council?

I haven't read the whole threa (sorry) but this kind of struck a chord with me. My DS really wanted to go to sewing club at school but it was full of girls and he thought the boys would be mean about him going so he ended up not doing it. He would have loved a club where more boys were doing craft stuff (although necessarily at the exclusion of girls) instead of football.

YANBU

I attended a ladies kickboxing class (when I was fit), I did eventually start going to mixed classes but would never have gone to a mixed class to begin with.

YANBU. Write a constitution for your club and include the issue that you are trying to address which is to encourage under-represented groups to participate in craft-based activities. Create a criteria for membership (age; sex; minority status, etc) and support your argument with research studies that prove the benefits of single sex education/groups; the arguments about boys being disadvantaged in these areas and how it impacts on attainment (this really depends on the socio-economic composition of the group).
Alternatively, move to a different venue.

Surely it would be better to educate boys that there's no such thing as "girly" activities, and even if there are, they are not inferior to "boy" activities. Boys' fear of seeming "girly" is the root here.

The best (or even the better) is the enemy of the good, isn't it?

Can you change the venue ?

A private village hall or the scout hut ? Anywhere the council can't interfere.

I think what you are doing is very commendable and that mother who started all this aggro is nothing but s sneaky shit stirrer.

I'd ask the council for proof that they have also taken the same decision regarding Brownies.

If you are forced to change, as a PP said; state on the publicity that you now accept girls. Change the name to something girls are likely to find less attractive; declare yourself full and begin to hold a waiting list. If you can, tip off every potential boy family you know first so they get on the waiting list early.

Then you'll only ever get the odd girl or two in; which won't significantly alter the balance.

I have a son AND a daughter and I think this is bollocks. It's great that you've had the nouse to start a group that works for your kids. Let Mrs Stickyfuckingbeak start her own if she's that bothered.

I don't have boys and would not be bothered in the slightest with a boy's only group. I also think it is a perfectly legitimate group. I went swimming yesterday it was women only. I was quite surprised there was a slot every morning that excludes men and there are no men only sessions.

I love what another poster said lightheartedly. Go co-ed, accept the daughter but due to the extra attendee, there is no longer room for the son. See how the interfering cow likes that.
Or put letters out to the parents of the other children, explaining that due to a complaint from one of the mothers (no need to name them, gossip will do that for you), the club is in danger of closing and ask that they speak to the council, voicing their objection to the threat of this closure.

My DD2 attends Rainbows. DS1 cannot. He wants to go with his big sister but he just has to deal with the fact that it is a girl's club. Not a big deal.
My husband also attends a government funded initiative called "Men and their Children" that encourages dads to get involved in crafts, days out, swimming, or cooking etc with their children. Mums can't go. It's a great idea!

This club has 25 boys and OP seems to be saying that adding just one girl would lead to it being completely taken over by girls and the boys would then despise the activists as girly.

This is monstrous regiment territory. If the boys enjoy the activity can't they continue to enjoy it in the presence of a girl? Why should girls be excluded because boys are being encouraged that these sexist views of boys/girls activities are okay.

The woman was right to complain, the club is discriminatory, and if OP would rather close it than let in a girl that's on her.

I th I boys need a space away from girls, just as girls need spaces away from boys. They mix at school, why can't they have their own space thereafter? For the PP who said she was teaching her daughter she could do the same activities as boys with the boys, has it ever occurred to you that the boys don't always want girls around?

I think your club sounds like a brilliant idea. I would out forward a counter argument to the council. Explain WHY your club is single sex, talk about the alternative that is offered to both sexes and about how boys are lacking in space to do these things due to over subbed beavers. You are basically providing an alternative to the over subbed beavers (possibly over subbed due to being unisex these days)

It smacks of spite to me. My DD can't go so I want to ruin it for everyone else as well.

I have a boy, I love doing crafts with him and I love your club. if you lived near I would take my boys and I would offer to help you. However these people have a bee in their bonnets. You are not likely to win, Brownies etc are historic clubs. Can you be proactive and ask the parents of the boys who come to your club if they would be happy to change the structure? I'm sure they won't mind tbh. Watch out for that mother as its unlikely she will lay low once she has her own way - power can do crazy things to some parents. She'll be boasting about being feminist next...

YADNBU
Good for you.

But I do think you need a constitution that explains your rationale - that you are providing an activity for children who would otherwise be excluded from / find it hard to access, the activities you offer.

Straightforward discrimination (by sex) is not going to be acceptable to a public body - surely you can see that? But, it is not, per se, what you are about. It just happens that the people who lack access to organised craft activities are boys.

I think if you put that to the council, with other relevant examples (Brownies may be the unusually-constituted exception that proves the rule, so don't rely on that one) in a non-confrontational way and express willingness to talk things through with them to find a solution, you'll get somewhere.

You need to be clear about your objectives as a group - and what you personally are willing to do - and, you need to understand the precise basis for the council's concern. It's likely you will be able to reconcile the two - group and council. How you feel about it personally e.g. how much effort you're willing to out in to admin and procedures, might be a separate thing.

Rhi I don't think it is monstrous regiment territory at all. There are women only groups...I've yet to see a bloke in the Mothers Union or the WI, and it's about making a comfortable zone for boys to try skills they might not otherwise try. I don't see that there's a problem with that.

Ds is a cub, he was a beaver his previous troop was co-ed and run by women, when we moved he transferred to an all male troop with male leaders, guess which he prefers at nine years old?

Yep the new troop is boisterous, loud and very qucick with a fart joke, they camp more and generally behave like little boys so girls do change the dynamic. As such my dd will be told its brownies for her not beavers as boys need space too.

I think YABU. The difference between girls only spaces and boys only spaces is the many hundred years of oppression of girls which still colours our society. I think you are supporting an idea that boys are lowering themselves if they associate with girls.

I sometimes need space away from my dh and ds, so I go to an all female stitching group. My book group is all female as well. I value the time spent with other women. That doesn't make me oppressed imo, just needing female space, where the mention of a hot flush gets an understanding smile and comment. Why aren't males (or boys in this instance) allowed to need the same away from females?

If as an adult you choose pursuits restricted to men or women then that is entirely your decision and to be respected.

It's not necessary for primary aged children. Why on earth do they need 'space' from each other?

How does that work if you have mixed siblings?