to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

[Waterlipe]

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

I think it is great you ae giving up your time to create this opportunity for children in your area ,OP

Exactly as Soupdragon and others say - my previous teen DD played football with an all girl's team for 5 years, and as a result she confidently joined a mixed summer football programme run by a bigger club as one of only 3 girls among 97 boys! As she said herself because she could already play and they could see for themselves that she's as good as most of them, she didn't have to bother saying anything to the idiots who said they didn't want a girl in their team - once they started training they soon shut up.

If she'd gone into a mixed group as one of a very small number of girls without the background with the girls team she'd have been in a far more vulnerable position and had to be mentally tougher than average, whereas having learnt her skills in an all female group she was at an advantage when joining a mixed group.

Preteen not previous teen

It was really nice of you to run the club, and the mum that wrote to the Council is a total bitch. Children that age can get a lot out of single sex activities, you are basically being bullied for doing something nice.

Is there any other venue you could use, eg a church hall? Or even on school premises? Or any way to appeal the Council decision?

If it was me I don't think I'd change the rules, I would rather close it (or make it an activity for 12 boys every other week at my house) than give in to such a bully. But obviously the easiest thing to do would be to give in and change rules - it's entirely up to you but certainly you are not being unreasonable.

Good luck and well done on what you've achieved so far. And do spread the word about what that mum has done, she should feel the consequences.

I have been told on MN before that I should discourage my DD from sewing, cooking, story writing and languages (which she loves, alongside football...) and encourage her to work on STEM subjects (which she does not enjoy).

How ironic, and what a shitty message, that "feminist" was sending - subjects traditionally seen as female have low or no value, subjects traditionally seen as male have high value, do them even if you hate them and except that only people who excel at traditional "boy stuff" have value.

Banning all boy clubs focusing on traditionally female hobbies and skills reduces the chance of encouraging boys to take up those hobbies and learn those skills, and therefore ensures they remain labeled as "girls stuff".

The only real way to equality is not to have girls stuff and boys stuff - but no matter what some people think that cannot be achieved by force of will, and has to encompass hiking up the value of "womens work / girls stuff" to be equal to the value of "men's work/ boys stuff" not just encouraging girls to do traditionally masculine school subjects/ work whilst tacitly agreeing that the traditional "female" areas of work and skillsreduces are low value and "beneath" true feminists and their daughters (but also beneath their sons...)

It's a long way off, but hiking the value of activities previously seen as "for girls" by setting up boys clubs to practice/ learn those activities can only be good for girls too in the long run, as long as there are sufficient places in other groups for girls to do the activities too.

I have several children and they all have their own clubs and hobbies - insisting they all do the same is just lazy parenting.

*accept not except

I think it is important for both boys and girls to have the option of a single sex club if that's what they are looking for. What a bitch of a mum to go to the council for purely practical reasons on her behalf.

I'd write a letter to all the parents/hold meeting at the end of the session, explaining council view. Ask them for their opinions (in writing) saying why they feel it should remain single sex, or whether they would prefer it went mixed sex, or went for another venue (which may/may not mean price rise).

You're doing a fab thing for a community and so churlish of this mum to whinge just because she wants her daughter out of the house too.

Yanbu

No way would i change to allow girls because of one spiteful cunt

I thought it was, Boney so I guess that means that only certain archaic golf clubs are male only spaces.

@ SoupDragon actually, Round Table/41 Club is male only and Ladies Circle/Tangent is female only. Both adult groups. It is a 'family' of clubs and we often come together for events but each club exists as a male/female only domain.

YANBU OP. As an adult, I sometimes welcome the opportunity to have a female-only space and I don't see why it should be different for kids. Encouraging boys to do things that are traditionally seen as 'girly' can only be a good thing and help to break the stereotypes that exist around these activities. As PP have said, argue your case with the Council.

I have been told on MN before that I should discourage my DD from sewing, cooking, story writing and languages (which she loves, alongside football...) and encourage her to work on STEM subjects (which she does not enjoy).

I do think that a good understanding of STEM subjects is important - we are increasingly reliant on technology and anyone who doesn't have a certain knowledge of IT is going to be disadvantaging themselves.

That doesn't have to be at the expense of literature, languages, crafty stuff, though. There's lots of chemistry and physics in cooking, for example, and while you don't necessarily need to understand just how different raising agents work, for example, it might make it more accessible for some. There's lots of maths in knitting and if you can understand a knitting pattern, you would be able to understand a computer program, because the logic is exactly the same. So I think we should not focus on how different separate subjects are, but how they all link together.

I think single sex spaces are okay, especially if it means people will get to try things they otherwise wouldn't because of social pressures. There have been plenty of examples in this thread where both boys and girls have given up activities they were interested in because of being in a minority and feeling excluded. Obviously we should challenge parents and other children who are name-calling and being discriminatory in other ways, but until we reach an ideal world where everyone is happy to do activities together without feeling out of place, I am happy for things being provided which make up for some of the deficiencies of our imperfect world.

GeminiRising

You have quoted soupdragons response to me answering about the boys brigade

@Boney

Yes because I was mentioning that there are other men/women only groups in response to her comment about it being only golf clubs who were single sex.

Is that a problem?

there are other men/women only groups

But the two you mention co-exist and seem to be more like separate branches of the same thing so opportunities are equal. There are definitely more female only groups, with no male equivalent, as this is deemed acceptable. It's bonkers really. Where there are equal (or equitable) opportunities and a solid reason in favour of them*, then single sex gruops are really not a problem.

*unlike the archaic golf clubs!

GeminiRising

no need to get huffy, you mentioned my name in your quote and I thought that you misunderstood the point that I was making, not making another point to soupdragon

I know exactly what I'd do, I'd open up the club and invite girls and boys, BUT the mother who complained would be put on a very special waiting list along with violetbams kid.

As in, it would be a cold day in hell before you and your brat got in MY club.

In my village my boys have two options, brownies or "little princesses dance class".

They would love your club and I wish we could have that here!

Boney

Except I addressed the rest of my post to Soupdragon which I would have thought makes it fairly obvious I wasn't speaking to you, as the quote was hers.

Which is why I asked if there was a problem as I couldn't work out what your point was - I wasn't being huffy.

Just wondering if there was any further update on this OP?

Sorry cannot change into my old username for some bizarre reason? It won't let me use any previous ones.

WE GOT IT BACK!!! :) the girl is not a member and we have lots of boys enjoying themselves and trying new stuff :)

I (female) coach rugby.

We are starting female only sessions in the new year. I already provide sessions that COULD be mixed but I have had a number of girls request a space to try it out which I am providing. I am presuming I am doing the wrong thing?

I am the mother of a DD. I have no issues with a boy only space.

Great news OP!

Fantastic!

I hope one day we live in an equal society where separate clubs are not necessary or desired. But until then it is great that you are helping to break down barriers.

Congrats op!

Going back through some of my old threads that I was watching and saw this was updated - delighted for you OP that you're back in business! Well done!!!!