to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

[Waterlipe]

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

I can see why you think a boys only club is a good idea but actually I would fully back the council/the other parent.
Single sex activities send out a really damaging message to both sexes imo.
I refuse to let my 5yo dd go to rainbows as it is girls only.
How can we hope for future generations to break down sex/gender barriers if we still send out messages that it is appropriate to separate boys from girls?

If you genuinely have boys who won't do an activity because it's infected by girls then deal with that problem, don't compound it by creating even more divisions.

Dudley, surely that's the same problem with girls though? There's girls coding, girls lego, etc. clubs at my DS's school, these could all be done with boys.

YADNBU

The scouts movement decided to allow girls because some units were not attracting enough boys. Guides and Brownies units usually have a waiting list.

I think your club sounds great. Boys should also have the option, as girls do, of being part of a club without the opposite sex.

I would do what you can to continue it, but if you hit walls then ensure you hand out a letter to all the parents explaining the reason for closing it down.

I agree there must also be some funding available. Could you crowd fund? 50p a week pays for £12.50 worth of craft stuff.

Might as well teach girls early that they're excluded from certain things for the crime of having a vagina. Like men and motherhood really......poor them, having a dick.

I really don't know how some of you manage to get through your days with the weight of female oppression on your shoulders. Fgs, get a grip. Women can do and do do most jobs . We have a woman PM, we may be about to have the first woman POTUS.

I can't say that in all my half century I have felt oppressed by being female. I have always had equal pay with males, and equal opportunities. In fact, being female has given me more in many respects, and I have longer life expectancy because I'm female. I really don't understand why people don't grasp that there are differences between girls and boys and sometimes we have to make allowances for that?

Scary you have all those things but there are many women who do not. Girl who come from underprivileged backgrounds aren't likely to earn a salary at all.

They will get a wage if they're lucky and not enough probably.

Assuming ALL women have the same chances is bull. And separating them when they're children is NOT necessary.

except for those of us who have described situations where we'd have been far more likely to take up opportunities in single sex groups, without necessarily having been able to articulate why.

Violetbarn that's similar for underprivileged boys to be fair although they're probably likely to end up in prison.

I disagree with scary, we don't have equality, but violet can't you see how introducing boys to activities stereotypically female might actually help?

your club sounds great and very worthwhile
as a PP suggested there is probably something locally like a council for voluntary services who can help you- they may even point you in the direction of a children's/young people's clubs umbrella group which may help.
Although you have had a letter from the council I think it's unlikely they would really force the issue and just want to shut up the woman that complained by looking like they took her seriously. You could also contact the local councillor for the area the club is in, they probably will support you especially as you are providing a constructive low cost activity in a deprived area.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

I think it's a great idea and a club that meets a specific need.

I am also a feminist, & a disabled person so am well versed in inclusion, and equality meaning that sometimes people can be treated differently to create equity.

Strange yes of course but not via telling them they're boys so they should have a separate place in which to DO the activities! It suggests that girls are less...that boys shouldn;t have to "put up with them" or share a space with them...because they might catch the gay or the girly or some such crap.

no it doesn't - much more likely that the boys might feel intimidated by the girls in such a situation, or intimidated by other people thinking that they are doing something weird - just like happens in reverse, not that they might catch the gay or have to put up with 'lesser beings'! By giving them the chance to try it, get interested, build up skills, you are paving the way for more mixed scenarios at a later date when they perhaps don't feel embarrassed or intimidated - a bit more like cooking is nowadays, I think, at least compared to how it was when I was at school.

Fight it, OP, as YADNBU.

Here's a cautionary tale from my experience:

DS1 has always been a fab dancer, but very shy, and resisted every attempt to get him to join a class. He never said at the time it was because they were all-girl, but he admits now that was the problem.

Around age 9, a couple of his teachers spoke to me about it, as they had noticed him "mucking about" and thought he should go to classes - on one occasion doing this, all the girls had begged him to do it again, and the boys asked him to teach them to dance like that, so with a bit more encouragement he agreed to join an after-school club. However he bottled out at the last minute when he saw how the girls were dressed - "proper" dance gear, etc. It brought all his fears of being the "different" one back, so he just refused.

It was eventually acknowledged that some boys would like to dance but not with the girls, so someone started a hip-hop group after school aimed specifically at boys. Twelve boys joined including DS1 and he loved it. They did a performance at the end of term and the talent scout from the local dance school was there. She singled out DS1 and one other and came to speak to the parents, inviting us to bring our boys to a taster class.

The performance was also seen by the girls, who all immediately wanted to join. DS1 was very unhappy at the idea, as the boys-only group was the only comfort zone he had, but the teacher was forced into allowing them on equality grounds.

DS1 was dreading returning, especially as he knew a couple of the girls who were going and said "they scream all the time, even when they're happy! All the boys hate it!". Then on the day of lesson one with girls DS1 says he heard them talking about what make-up they were wearing and if they had brought a leotard or skirt for the class. He very nearly didn't go, but I said he should go at least once. Only 4 of the original 12 boys went, and there were 16 girls. They (apparently) complained about changing facilities (none) and wanted to do ballet as well, but the teacher firmly refused. One girl cried whenever she didn't get to go first at everything, and the boys all resolved to quit.

Despite my best efforts he just would not go back, especially as the other three weren't going. He wouldn't even try the taster session at the dance school, even though I said there would be more boys there. The hip-hop class folded at the end of that second term. DS1 is still occasionally bitter about it, saying he just needed to gain a bit more confidence amongst his peers before being ready to brave it with a mixed bunch of screeching divas.

He still has the coolest moves, but only his closest friends, family and pets get to see them!

It suggests that girls are less...that boys shouldn;t have to "put up with them" or share a space with them...because they might catch the gay or the girly or some such crap

No it doesn't!! What a load of rubbish. It's just giving boys a chance to try an activity that is traditionally thought of as a girls activity, without having to worry what others may think of them .

I agree with you OP.

My son is only little but Fragile Masculinity is something I worry about.

You see it everywhere. If a girl goes to school dressed in a traditionally male costume she's great and her parents are wonderful. You send a boy in a frozen dress and often even the most 'progressive' parents start to panic.

We are in danger of leaving our sons behind in the push to destroy gender based prejudice.

For a while we needed positive discrimination - to free girls. Now we need that for boys too.

Our local dance school has started a 'russian' ballet class and they are heavily theming it to appeal to boys. They know that no matter how much they shout about the regular classes being open to all, most parents are reluctant to have their son go. Whilst it does seem a bit sad that they have to rebrand a class as 'tough' in an effort to get boys through the door, it's a start.

I cant believe that one woman after an hours free childcare probally has caused this debate.
Can 9 yr old son sew? Yes
Would he sign up fir sewing club? Hell no!
For an all boys craft club? Maybe
I'm sure the woman thinks she I fighting for her dd's rights, what she has done is stolen an activity from her ds.....

I think your club sounds great OP. My boys would have loved to attend as they both like arts and crafts. They would not attend if girls were the majority. Same as I would not attend a running club if men were the majority. It would change the feeling of the club. Sexist perhaps but we are all different.

Sometimes its just nice for boys and girls to have their own space, nothing wrong with that.

Hmmm.... I'm not sure on this one. I have a ds and a dd and I'd want them to both go. my ds is more sensitive but I'm not sure he'd be put off by lots of girls there.

Violet If I were at school now, I would be in receipt of pupil premium as I would be considered a disadvantaged child (HM Forces family, frequent moves, disruption to my education), yet, I managed to get through comp, get O and A levels, a degree and a post grad. I wouldn't say that my background was privileged, just ordinary, and I got paid a salary wehn I started working.

State education is an opportunity that everyone has in the UK, including all females of a suitable age, so the opportunity is there - it does however need to be grasped.

I do see a need to separate them at times when they are young, especially if either are being put off doing an activity or trying it because it has been viewd as gender specific.

Tangentially ...

Have you seen the new Smyths advert on TV? Boy travels through toy shop playing with Lego, cars, princess dressing up, and Star Wars. All given equal weighting and no remark. The Twittersphere approves.

Complicit in our own oppression, as always...