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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

353 replies

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 01:26

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 27/09/2016 20:57

That's okay Boney. Smile

I know it's very annoying. Most of us would just find something else for our DD to do, but there's always one pain in the backside mum, who has nothing better to do than write letters to the Council.

Is the activity run on Council premises or something OP?

trufflehunterthebadger · 27/09/2016 22:02

Not all brownie/rainbow units do loads of craft thank you very much. I hate craft and we rarely do craft things - however as girlguiding is "girl led" I have to include some as they beg me for it.

This term we have 3 meetings out and about doing sports in the park, 2 doing a project called "in her shoes" learning about life for girls their age in Rural India, a week visiting the mosque and (bowing to pressure) a craft session making a model Houses of Parliament for a badge about parliament.

We don't all knit and serve Tea trays covered in doilies.

trufflehunterthebadger · 27/09/2016 22:06

Rotary - possibly still all male

Nope, I'm a female Rotarian and past-president of my club

trufflehunterthebadger · 27/09/2016 22:09

Re masons: Some lodges are mixed, some are male-only and some female-only. I intended to join my old school lodge but it's male only.

trufflehunterthebadger · 27/09/2016 22:12

Inner wheel dates back to when rotary was men-only and their wives joined IW. There are still flourishing IW clubs who prefer to be a female-only club but these are dwindling now and the members tend to be older women. I do have several friends who belong to both.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 22:21

For now you could say there's a maximum of say for example 28 kids allowed and there could only by a maximum of 7 girls.

I bet you couldn't because people would still complain that it discriminated against girls.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 22:23

If there are equitable opportunities for all, I think single sex activities benefit everyone.

VioletBam · 28/09/2016 00:40

[sigh] not one single person (apart from you) has said that the club would be no good because it has girls in it. They are saying that boys will not want to go once the traditionally girls activity is no longer a "safe" boys only club.

And there lies the problem. If boys don't WANT to attend a club with girls in it, then that is the issue of the adults in charge of educating them and in charge of squashing misled individuals who think that boy can't or should not do crafts.

It's no good pandering to the people who make boys uncomfortable about joining in these things....it's far more useful to fight the oppressive ideas around boys and girl activities by helping boys and girls integrate more into groups traditionally not seen as "suitable" or "appropriate"

By creating a division, you're forcing more separation.

OriginalBlonde · 28/09/2016 02:34

Haven't read full thread yet but good on you OP. I hope your boys craft club can continue.

And for the record, I've always found it a puzzle why beavers/Cubs and scouts accept girls (there are a few girls in ds cub group) but Brownies don't?

FindingNemoFindingDory · 28/09/2016 03:15

Sounds like a great club! I hope you get it sorted Smile

Thebeachismyhappyplace · 28/09/2016 03:42

This from ^^ I like the idea of a boys craft club. In an ideal society we could teach all our children together and it's all wonderful BUT we don't have an ideal society. Children are gender stereotyped, they do bend to peer pressure even if mum and dad are very encouraging/ open minded.

It's not a crime for either sex to have their own space to explore activities that are sometimes classed being based in one gender.

A local group started just like yours. It now takes girls (similar circs to yours) & many boys have dropped out, mine included. Not being special snowflakes, the dynamic just changed.

It is run by an artist mum with 4 DS it was a great space for creativity set up because she wanted a group with more freedom than school curric allowed. But many girls' mums complained it was too boisterous and not 'focussed' enough which i always thought missed the point....

Good luck OP i hope the parents will Stand behind you and write supportively to council.

As an aside DS group had termly shows - so everyone was 'on the wall'. DS wasn't the only one delighted 'to be picked' having never had so at school. Amazing to see how the confidence in the group grew after that first show.

HeyOverHere · 28/09/2016 04:58

This is a bit of a tangent, but I'm curious about something (and this may have been covered). Are there rules within the Beavers or Cubs about how many packs can be open in a certain area? My small town (USA) had packs and troops at most levels.

If there's no such rule, or they're willing to make exceptions, since the various scouts are so popular, I hope someone will step up to make another troop(s)/pack(s).

MsJamieFraser · 28/09/2016 06:11

We had to take our son out of is dancing class because he was picked on by the girls and he was being called "gay" "poof" etc... He loved doing the activity but hated the attitude towards him.

He desperately wants to do the signing after school class, but has missed the first class, as he was so nervous as he's the only boy to show intreasted.

My son would love your group OP, and I wish we had one similar here.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 28/09/2016 06:15

Why can't it be an ideal society by still having opportunities for boys and girls not to be together all the time?

Imagine any time you wanted to have a gathering or party you were forced to invite both sexes because that is more ideal?

Hello Dave, can you and Joe make it to my Hen party please?

Yes Ok Claire. We're just sending out invitations to Louise and Rachel for the stag do. I hope they can make it. The evening really won't be ideal unless we can have a fully integrated event with women and men.

Nah. It's nice to have events and clubs for girls and events and clubs for boys, as well as mixed ones.

Rosa · 28/09/2016 06:41

I am for the keeping the boys only simply as it started as such . Good luck OP .

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/09/2016 06:46

VioletBam

And there lies the problem. If boys don't WANT to attend a club with girls in it, then that is the issue of the adults in charge of educating them

Shouldn't this also apply to guides and brownies as the girls don't want to attend a club with boys in it?

MsJamieFraser · 28/09/2016 06:56

Everyone should be educated, that's basic common sense!
However that does not mean every single club should be mixed, some clubs want single sex clubs, my own son would love a class where he could be who he is and not be subjected to abuse!

MangoMoon · 28/09/2016 06:58

perhaps we need a support group for women oppressed by tweenie boys doing crafts.

GrinGrin

Actual lol at that!
But often the truest words are spoken in jest - judging by some posts on this thread I would wager that it's only a matter of time until a SAFE SPACE! like this has been created...

budgiegirl · 28/09/2016 07:15

And for the record, I've always found it a puzzle why beavers/Cubs and scouts accept girls (there are a few girls in ds cub group) but Brownies don't?

Because they are completely separate organisations, they are not two branches of the same thing.

SoupDragon · 28/09/2016 07:22

If boys don't WANT to attend a club with girls in it, then that is the issue of the adults in charge of educating them and in charge of squashing misled individuals who think that boy can't or should not do crafts.

Only the parents of the boys? What about the parents of girls who complain about boisterousness or parents of girls who tease the boys? What about the parents of the boys who tease others for doing the clubs?

No good parent would force their child to attend a club they were uncomfortable going to and so they drop out.

It works both ways and this is why there are clubs for girls football etc. Let's ban those too so that girls don't get to try traditionally male activities in a "safe" environment. Same goes for women only car maintenance courses, gyms etc etc.

By creating a division, you're forcing more separation.

Actually, no you arent. From this craft club for example, you now have a group of boys who could happily hold their own in conversation about craft with a group of girls or confidently contribute to a group craft session in class. The same goes for the girls in girls only football club, they've learnt a skill that gives them something in common with many boys. Both have learnt it in a safe space. It is more clubs like this, not enforced mixed sex groups, that will create greater acceptance of broken stereotypes. However, it takes time.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 28/09/2016 07:51

The same goes for the girls in girls only football club, they've learnt a skill that gives them something in common with many boys. Both have learnt it in a safe space. It is more clubs like this, not enforced mixed sex groups, that will create greater acceptance of broken stereotypes. However, it takes time
^^ This.

TaraCarter · 28/09/2016 07:52

It's no good pandering to the people who make boys uncomfortable about joining in these things....it's far more useful to fight the oppressive ideas around boys and girl activities by helping boys and girls integrate more into groups traditionally not seen as "suitable" or "appropriate"

How? This is a voluntary club. This isn't a captive market of children you can proselytise. How would you make boys sign up, when many will see "boys and girls welcome" and assume it'll be mostly girls and any boy there will be open to teasing at school by the girls (and then the boys who don't go) for being "weird"?

If you're a boy and you try knitting with just other boys, no-one is going to be laughing at you at school tomorrow, because everyone who knows was also doing knitting while being male. If you put some girls in the room, they have nothing to lose.

Do you object to ladies-only kickboxing classes? Could you break down boundaries by forbidding single-sex kickboxing? Do you think the women who go would sign up for mixed kickboxing classes!

ShatnersWig · 28/09/2016 08:07

Total double standards by the council. Send them details of every single sex activity - adult or child - that takes place in any council owned or administered property in your area and ask when they will be kicking them out.

By the same token, and following their logic, as well as shutting down the Brownies if they run from any council-owned or administered building, the council must ban any male voice choirs or military wives choirs from being in their premises and instruct all their schools to insist on mixed netball and football teams going forward.

eyebrowsonfleek · 28/09/2016 08:08

It's 2016 yet we get posts on here from adult women saying that their partner doesn't want their son playing with a baby doll.
It's a bit much asking kids to fight for their gender's right to do crafts when the world isn't equal in that regard and even colours are assigned sexes in children's clothing shops. E.g. Purple= girl
My children go to a naice school but I've heard people go Hmm at the only boy/girl doing an activity. Even though the adults and kids know that boys can be singers, the only boy in the choir was laughed at.
I would fight this letter for the sake of boys who need this space.

SexDrugsAndSausagesrolls · 28/09/2016 08:32

My son loves ballet, I can vouch that it was parents commenting and smirking at him. He's quite confident and popular but I think few boys would do it, and I wouldn't blame them. Even as a parent, although I put a face in, it's had to be calm and not immaturely pop at people who mock ballet for boys. At school id probably end up in playground fights over it and his age

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