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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

353 replies

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 01:26

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 27/09/2016 17:35

We, group of women, run craft clubs in local library and the back of the local fabric shop. We run sewing, knitting and pattern drafting courses for kids from 5 - 15.

We have always had boys only sessions and they are often oversubscribed. Our logic is that the groups fill with girls, very quickly. Boys ask, used to come once, get a bit flustered/upset at the different skill level, mindset and general attitude towards the tasks, and never come back - so did some of the girls. So we started some boys/girls only sessions... they filled very quickly and remain full/oversubscribed every year.

The lesson plans are different for the boys sessions, they ask completely different question, want to sew, knit, construct completely different things and have quite a different pace/level of progression when in boys only sessions.

Odd the very same thing happens in girls only sessions.

The more advance often but not always older, groups usually become mixed quite naturally, we don't push it but there is always one or two clever cloggses who make the suggestion that they would get extra hours if they joined together, so we do, when they ask.

Ofsted do NOT have a problem with this - we have checked with them, been recommended by them and the local schools because of our gender thoughtful approach.

And it is not illegal, or immoral, for private clubs to be single sex.

So, OP, go for it. I hope your sessions remain as popular as ours do!

OurBlanche · 27/09/2016 17:35

Complicit in our own oppression, as always.. Or nurturing, each according to need. If you choose to see the positive in it!

EllyMayClampett · 27/09/2016 17:50

Complicit in our own oppression, as always...

Is it insisting that everything should be coed which oppresses us? Or is it not allowing gender specific learning opportunities which oppress us? I have gotten a little lost trying to follow all the different lines of thinking.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 18:06

Since there are other options for girls and not for boys the boys will still be in the majority - unless parents encourage the attitude that the club's no good now because it has girls in.

[sigh] not one single person (apart from you) has said that the club would be no good because it has girls in it. They are saying that boys will not want to go once the traditionally girls activity is no longer a "safe" boys only club.

Would you force your child to continue with an activity they wanted to stop?

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 18:06

Soupdragon

Just to confirm boys brigade is mixed in the UK.

Some one mentioned rotary,

rotary link is mixed as well.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 18:07

And you clearly don't understand primary aged boys if you think a traditionally female activity will remain mostly boys if girls are admitted.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 18:11

I thought it was, Boney so I guess that means that only certain archaic golf clubs are male only spaces.

I have no problem with the WI or the guide movement or any other female only group. However, there should be male only space for boys. Especially when there are mixed alternatives, or indeed girl only alternatives. IMO it is discriminatory to offer only female only spaces and basically ban male only ones in circumstances where the boys would benefit like this one.

AnnPerkins · 27/09/2016 18:19

I don't see what's wrong with single sex clubs. Plenty of children are educated in (council run) single sex schools. Presumably many parents send their children to them for similar reasons to those many pps have posted here.

I think any encouragement of boys to do traditionally girl-oriented things can only be of benefit to girls and women. When a pastime, job or role is no longer seen as just for girls/women, females will no longer be obliged to take sole responsibility for it. Bring on the boys only childcare/housework/cooking clubs as well!

OP, if you can find an alternative venue that would probably be the most painless way of keeping your club as you want it. But if you want to fight the council then I think you should and I wish you luck.

MrsHathaway · 27/09/2016 18:25

And you clearly don't understand primary aged boys if you think a traditionally female activity will remain mostly boys if girls are admitted.

Soup, while I agree with you in general, my three DS go to a craft club which is mixed but has more boys than girls. Now, I couldn't tell you if any boys have been put off by the presence of girls (because mine aren't) but the ratio is stable there.

SexDrugsAndSausagesrolls · 27/09/2016 18:32

I do think if you volunteer for free beyond basic safeguarding you should be able to run how you wish, as long as others are all free to do so in that space.

I had similar, I wanted to run a craft club for children with Sen and their siblings with certain features. We were 'exclusive', opened up and stopped running as my Sen dd couldn't cope with the noise and behaviour of those not used to children like her or the others there... So the group ended as I wasn't going to volunteer for something my own child couldn't attend! No one was willing to help or stick to the ethos, but they wanted a group of teachers to teach art for free!

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 18:34

MrsHathaway

Would your boys be allowed to be put off by the presence of girls?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/09/2016 18:37

I ran a sewing club at dcs' primary school that started off as a small majority boys and ended all girls. Based on that experience I fully support op's choice to do single sex.

Gowgirl · 27/09/2016 18:38

Why does everything have to turn into a feminist battle, just waiting for someone to bring trans children up......

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 18:45

Gowgirl
Why does everything have to turn into a feminist battle, just waiting for someone to bring trans children up......

Two posters already have.

Gowgirl · 27/09/2016 18:46

I must have missed thoseGrin

EveOnline2016 · 27/09/2016 18:51

Ultimately this has taught these boys that the girls wishes trumps them.

Equality doesn't mean equal.

Ds attends a club specific for those with disabilities. Would it be fair to allow those without disabilities to attend.

SandyY2K · 27/09/2016 19:08

I can see it from both sides.

I think you might be better off having a limitation on numbers of girls and boys so it doesn't get overtaken by one gender.

If you write some terms of reference with the aims and objectives, then you can have girls, but possible with a 25/75 quota. So there are always more boys.

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 19:12

SandyY2K

which boys should the OP remove from the club to allow your idea to happen?

MrsHathaway · 27/09/2016 19:17

Boney one of them has been allowed to be put off by being the oldest (so the craft is a bit simple for him now), so I'm going for yes.

His football league is nominally mixed. We encounter about four girls a season, in other clubs. Our club has a dedicated girls' team and the girls defect there from the mixed group typically at age 6/7.

SandyY2K · 27/09/2016 19:26

Boney

I'm not suggesting she removes boys who are currently in the club. I was just thinking of a way round the problem so that it doesn't get overrun by girls.

For now you could say there's a maximum of say for example 28 kids allowed and there could only by a maximum of 7 girls.

It's about trying to encourage boys to do traditional girls activities and that's why you want the predominant membership to be boys.

There's always one mum who would take this to the top, but the Council would have been criticised if they didn't do anything I can guarantee you. The problem was they didn't know the reason behind it.

It's similar to something called STEMettes. It's trying to encourage girls to get into the careers is Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.

Brought about because of the shortage of women in these fields. I know this is just a kids club ... but you get what I mean.

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 19:33

sandy

The problem isn't the club or the club being all boys, its one pissy mum who has complained because she hasn't got her own way.

And yes it probably would mean removing boys from the club. and at very least preventing boys form joining.

In the same vein does the STEMettes allow boys? Should they be forced to take a set percentage of boys?

SandyY2K · 27/09/2016 20:17

Boney

I'm not quite sure why you're getting het up with me. I'm just expressing that the Council would have been unaware of the ethos and reasoning behind no girls.

There's always going to be that one mum and as a Council employee, they would be flamed if they did nothing.

SandyY2K · 27/09/2016 20:20

STEMETTES don't exclude boys, but there's a clear message in their set up and boys don't need encouragment to go for careers in those areas.

They want to attract females to earn higher.

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/09/2016 20:24

SandyY2K

I apologise if I come across as being het up, honestly I'm not, I'm just asking questions.

I just don't see why these boys should miss out and the OP change the ethos of her project because one mother can't be bothered to walk to two different places.

DioneTheDiabolist · 27/09/2016 20:36

FrangipaneFlapjack, perhaps we need a support group for women oppressed by tweenie boys doing crafts.Grin

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