To want to tell this girl's mum about how nasty she has been to DD?

[MurphyJim]

DD has just started secondary school. She has gone up to secondary school with a group of friends that she spent most of her primary school years hanging round with. One of them, I'll refer to her as G, is very much the head of the group of friends and has been unkind to DD quite a bit over the years. Mainly low level nastiness such as telling others in the group not to talk to DD, or making fun of DD and getting others to laugh at her. She is very manipulative.

G's mum is, unfortunately, one of those mums who thinks her DD is absolutely perfect and is the first to get on the phone to, or approach, the mum of any child who has made a tiny or perceived slight towards her child. I have heard of it happening many a time throughout primary school, and she has phoned me a couple of times in the past about things such as my DD not being her DD's partner in PE and her DD being upset.

Anyway, today it's G's birthday and she has had a huge party/disco in a hall, followed by a sleepover with several friends. She has told DD since they went back to school 3 weeks ago that she was inviting everyone except DD, as she doesn't want DD there. And true to her word she invited the rest of their friendship group, as well as every other new friend DD has made at secondary school. And didn't invite DD.

This in itself was upsetting enough for DD. However all through the party this evening G has repeatedly sent DD texts with photos of her and all of DD's friends having fun at the party with captions such as "I love my besties". She also tried to facetime DD several times throughout the party, presumably to rub it in DD's face that she wasn't there! DD sensibly ignored the texts and calls, but was understandably very upset.

I am so angry about it all and feel like giving this girl's mum a call or a text tomorrow just to let her know about how upset DD is by G's behaviour. Especially as the mum is always the first person to complain and to kick up a huge fuss if her DD is upset.

WIBU to contact the mum? I don't want to make things worse for DD.

^ sorry for all the typos above!!

Regarding the topic of this thread, I think you should contact the school and tell them. I wouldn´t go to the mother. She doesn´t sound like the kind of person who is going to respond as you would like. I would encourage your daughter to focus on new friends. No response to the bully sounds like a very good way of handling it.

The party must have been pretty terrible if the bully spent so much time messaging and trying to facetime your daughter!

My 14yo DD was invited for a sleepover last year by her 'bestie'. There were 2 other girls invited. DD went to school with all her sleepover stuff and a gift for the birthday girl. Birthday girl accepted the gift then told DD that one if the other girls didn't want her at the sleepover so was uninvited. DD was devastated. She's learnt the hard way that teenage girls can be bitches cruel.

I've never spoke to the other parents about it.....I don't socialise or mix with them in anyway. But I had advised to ignore them and guide her towards making new friends. She goes to a local drama group so has made new friends there whom she mixes with in school now. She's also just started her GCSEs so is mixing with more like minded kids.

Her school were very aware of what was going on as the 'leader' was very vocal in class. They helped by introducing her to other nicer kids. She seems more settled now especially now the year group have been separated into sets and 'those girks'are in bottom sets and she's in the top. They no longer mix together at all.

I'd also keep a very close eye on social media too. (NRFT but I'm sure that'll have been mentioned).

*girls.

Watching- similar thing happened to me at school. I was being bullied by one girl, got sick of it and made new friends. The new group I went into Are alll still friends to this day (after 20 years), and go on holiday every year together. They've been incredible friends to me, the group I was originally apart of don't talk since they all left school!

As well meaning as it is to say ignore and make new friends I don't think that is the short term solution. Why should your daughter have to make a whole new set of friends? It also hands the bully the power they want. I also think saying it's not important / to 'just' ignore minimises your daughters feelings. Teach her to confront on a one to one, in the way I mentioned up thread. As a manager I've had to employ this with adult bullies, it's very effective. As is expecting witnesses to intervene.

I'm going to go against the majority here.
I would contact the mother and the school!
Maybe not to expect the mother to actually do anything about it but so she knows you know.
I would also contact the school so they can keep an eye out.
Hate hate bullies!
But I fully believe that as a mother it is our job to protect our children and would never sit back and let that kind of behaviour carry on without stepping in. I have been in this position many times with my son who is roughly the same age and I've always stepped in to sort it and it's stopped straight away.

Think cauliflowers email is perfect and is exactly something I would write myself.

I'd go with cauliflower's suggestion 100%. Love to you and your dd that was a horrible experience for both of you. X

I don't know if this is helpful but my son was in this situation a couple of years ago but unfortunately he was 'G' in the equation. The whole group excluded one boy (who was absolutely lovely). I didn't have any idea until the boy's mum sent me a text saying 'can we talk'. I called her back and she told me that she needed to talk to the school about it as things were so miserable for her son but that she didn't want to be underhand and felt it best to let me know first. She was really lovely and understanding about it and said it in such an nonconfrontational way. Obviously I was absolutely mortified and upset but was not made to feel defensive and there was no doubt in my mind that her son was the one that needed my support. So we dealt with it together with the school's support and things got a lot better. Not perfect but better. What I'm trying to say is that the mother of the Queen/King bee isn't always endorsing bad behaviours. Most mums know what their child is capable of and will want to do the right thing if it's dealt with sensitively and in a nonconfrontational way.

3ameternal, you do speak sense and i agree that confrontation is the best way to nip it in the bud. i wish i'd known that when i was a child. i did tell the teacher but they didn't really do anything. it would have helped to have my mum tell me how to handle it.

it does take guts to stand up to a bully and is a very hard thing to do. some practicing at home first where you role play would help.

i also agree with teaching our children to stand up to bullies in protection of the bullied. bullies only get away with it because society doesn't do enough to stop it. we can all make a stand.

The mum sounds like a bully too - telling you your dd did wrong by not being her dd's partner. So she will have encouraged this sort of behaviour by showing her dd the power of bullying.

Therefore it will make no difference talking to her. Eventually the bullies lose because they become lonely individuals - ever relationship they have until they change is destroyed by their need to belittle and control.

So, tell your dd this. Discuss finding a kinder set of friends who aren't manipulated by this girl. Then tell her to sit back and watch as the bully picks another victim (who she could then befriend and ask t join her kind, acceptng group) and the others who will bit by bit sneak off and join her.

It is a long game. It will begin with her feeling low and lonely. But knowing how it will pan out over the years is empowering.

You could also let her tutor know so school can support her if she is isolated initially. They will know who the kind girls are too so ask them to encourage relationship building with them by partnering her with the nice girls. Never enter into engaging with a bully - some schools ask the blly to apologise or place victim with bully so the bully will see them as a person. This is pointless and terribly hurtful to the victim because generally the apology is false and the bullying just continues. If the school suggest this then firmly say 'no' I want her separate from the bully.

I think there are lots of good ideas here from experience. Blocking on phone and social media, helping DD to find new friends, brining the school in possibly, and maybe contacting the parents. But that is a last resort as it will just make the bully worse and tell everyone your DD is a cry baby running to her mother.

You don't just do one thing, you need to do them all and help your daughter be prepared for the inevitability of a backlash. Except maybe not contacting the mother of G unless you have to.

Blocking on iPhone is easy, "Simply go to your list of recent callers (open the Phone app, then hit the Recents tab at the bottom). Click the 'i' symbol next to the unwanted number, scroll down and tap Block this Caller, then confirm your decision. You won't be bothered with any calls, texts or FaceTime calls from that number."

Make sure your DD has a reason for blocking as an answer. You were boring me with your childish messages so I blocked you. Nothing that gives the bully a sign that they were upsetting. They hate no reactions, but be aware they may get worse and try other things in an attempt to regain control of their victim.

It always gets worse before it gets better.

New friends yes, because the current ones for going along with G are not worth having. But as someone said, do it slowly, transition across building new friends and distance old ones steadily. Some may follow in time.

Screen shots of all messages and abuse before blocking definitely. Print a pile out too. If u do need to go to school or worse the police in the end, putting one page after the other in front of someone as evidence is very powerful.

You need to support, listen and offer solutions, but your DD needs to choose and implement with support. Because if it's not G it will be someone else, and we all need to learn to defeat these bullies ourselves to grow.

It's not easy, as a parent you want to stamp on every threat to your child, but they learn nothing from that. They have to fall over and learn to get themselves up. Under a watchful eye of course.

I hope it all works out and your DD is ok in the end, I'm sure she will be.

One to one confrontation is fine if your dd is not afraid of her bully. I would say something along the lines of 'Sorry I missed all your calls and texts. I would have come but I was busy.' That will confuse her no end and take all the power out of her bullying. Not to mention being uninvited and pretend that actually all the texts were about inviting her all along! Also, bully will not know whether your dd realises she was being unkind or not. It will put her off guard for a while.

I would say the bully's next step will probably be lies about your dd's character. If your dd plays the 'grey rock' and just becomes very unreactive she'll get bored and find another victim (sadly) to get her power fix.

The route of all of this is the bully's insecurity and her feeling jealous of your dd's strength of character, which she now wants to destroy to make herself feel better. I bet her homelife is troublesome.

i wouldnt bother with the mother i would contact the school and show them the screenshots i,m sure they have a bullying policy let them deal with it.

We had something like this in my tutor group last year. I was made aware by the students so I did a bunch of home room lessons about "relational aggression" and stuff like that. It took time but eventually we got there.

Let the school know, so they can take action. They might not confront the girl directly, in fact I think it would be better if they confront the group about their bystander behaviour.

In my experience, the girl will only stop if she sees that it affects her standing in the group, not because her mum (or her teachers), have told her that this behaviour is unacceptable.

Send the email up there ^

I came to this thread ready to say that you should leave alone etc but after reading I would say that this is extreme relational aggression and needs to be taken seriously. If this was happening in the workplace to adults, it would be a serious case of workplace bullying so I'm not sure I agree with the posters who think you shouldn't do anything and encourage your child to just make new friends.

The problem with this type of bullying is that it seriously damages the victim's self esteem to the point that they are not able to make new friends etc as they internalise and start to believe the messages being given to them by the perpetrator. I would have serious concerns about the bully's mindset- what nasty bitchy behaviour. I would be tempted to speak to the mother but would avoid this as the behaviour is so extreme that I think it needs tackling through formal channels- go to the school, taking screen shots etc. I would block the girl and have no contact with the mother.

This is going to be a long post because it's something I feel really strongly about.

The "good" thing about it is that you have hard evidence. You have the fact she wasn't invited to the party and the screen shot of the texts and the screen shot of the FaceTime attempts. Those can't be denied. The contact was malicious because otherwise she would be at the party. The evidence shows that she didn't respond to the texts or pick up the FaceTime calls. So it shows harassment. The fact that you are not complaining about the taunting before the party, or her lack of invitation puts you in a very strong position, because what you are complaining about is evidenced.

If you didn't want to speak to the mother directly and you spoke to school, they can definitely deal with this. As a teacher, (used to be head of year) I would speak to your DD and create a plan. She needs to be in charge of it because otherwise she feels things are being "done" to her. And, after all, we want things better for her and for her to have strength in the situation.

The most popular route when I have dealt with things like this is that I call in G to say that a few girls had been to see me, very upset that they felt she was being mean to DD. I would say that I hadn't even spoken to DD yet but that there was something about text messages and FaceTimes going on at some party. Could she elaborate?
She would then be caught on the back foot. Which of her cronies was not supportive of her? There were "a few" as well, so they must have badmouthed her. Her little gang isn't quite as tight as she thought. If she asks them all individually, it might not be them but then they would know there was descension in the ranks and the whole group could topple. If she doesn't mention it, who can she really trust? The main 2 things that bullies want - power and support have been questioned. For this reason she is unlikely to ask the cronies about who "grassed" but if she does, they can all legitimately deny it. Chances are they will start pulling away from her and creating support for each other.

Then I ask you for the screen shots. Call G back in again. G, the problem is bigger than I thought. It sounds so mean. I asked DD's mum to look at the phone and send in the screenshots, on the back of the reports I heard from the girls. Did you know it's an offence to send texts that cause alarm or distress? Can you read this out loud to me? I'm not sure if we should ask your mum to come in for a parent conference. I'm going to need to seek advice, can you sit outside for a moment.

2 routes here - either tell G that you are going to be checking in regularly with the girls that came to report it, as well as her, and also DD ("even though I haven't even spoken to her about it yet") and that the tiniest whiff of nastiness you will be discussing this with the headteacher and recommending an exclusion. Or, route 2, phone G's mother "Hello Mrs G'sMum, school here. We've got a problem here. I have had some girls come to see me this morning, to report some nasty behaviour that has been going on involving G - no I'm afraid I never give out names of those reporting issues, just like if G came to see me about something she saw, I wouldn't give out her name to another parent, I'm sure you understand - in any case, yes, I appreciate there was a party and she didn't invite DD. Absolutely fine - she's within her rights to ask who she wants - however the girls said that they felt awful that G was sending some really nasty messages to DD. I had to ask DD's mum to take screen shots and send them in. Mrs G'smum I have to say, I think you would be so upset and angry if you saw them. You have really high standards for her I know. This falls far short, trust me. You want to come in? Absolutely - I think you need to see this. Mrs DD'smum said that DD was extremely upset over this, and as we both know, communications that cause alarm or distress are illegal. Do you think it would be helpful if we asked in our beat officer to talk to G with you? No? You feel you can deal with this yourself? Ok. I'll make a note of it that you will be dealing with it really firmly at home, and hold off on that for the moment. What I will be doing, is to monitor this really really closely. And I promise that if there is the tiniest whiff of further problems I will give you a call straight away. I have told G that if things continue after this intervention she could face an exclusion. We have been given very first guidelines from the government about persistent bullying behaviour. No no, I'm not saying G is a bully. I'm saying she is engaging in bullying behaviour and if she does not stop, straightaway, people will draw that conclusion, and that's a really hard thing to shake off."

There are lots of ways to skin a rabbit but while there was breath in my body I would be calling her out on it. G expects secrecy and nobody daring to question her. Do exactly that, whether through the mother or through the school. I promise this is squashable.

I would want to know if my child was involved in this kind of shit. You never know.... There was a situation recently where my friend's daughter had been involved in cyber bullying. It was a horrible situation but she was not defensive or aggressive - my friend was mortified and heartbroken and utterly shocked. She wrote to the bullied child and her parents to apologise and made her child do the same, banned her child from all social networking sites and removed her phone for months. And more importantly she had the opportunity to talk to her child about why she was doing it and the effect it could have. You never know - the mother could be an aggressive, bully or she could be a mum just trying to do her best by her child who would want the opportunity to put this right in some way.

I'm so sorry your child is going through this.

Oh my giddy aunt Cauli that's genius.

cauliflower

Wish all teachers were like you. Op the advice here is fantastic from cauliflower. Your poor dd.

I think reporting it to the school is a good idea. In my experience they will take it seriously and deal with it.

My DSS (13) was reported to the school for bullying another boy on an open xbox remote game. He was saying nasty racist things on the game, directed to this one boy. This was at the weekend. At school, the boy and his friends who had heard it too, went to the teacher and complained.

First we heard was a call from the school. DSS was put in isolation and made to apologise. DH also punished him and told him how unacceptable this behaviour was.

I think realising that the school could deal with it and punished him was more hard hitting than if his DF had dealt with it alone.

Good luck, I am sure they will take this seriously.

CauliflowerSqueeze

Thats brilliant.

If only all HOY were that good at dealing with this sort of stuff.

Brilliant Cauli - just perfect

I wouldn't contact the mum. If she thinks her child is always perfect, she'll rationalise this as somehow being your DD's fault. If you want any kind of action, you'll have to contact the school. I can understand why you're in two minds about this though. I guess the opening question is whether you think the school would actually do anything about it - is there a clear anti bullying policy? Do you have confidence that they'll follow through?

Sometimes I think our problems are not caused by men denying us opportunities but us women trampling all over each other, which seems to be a practice we first pick up in primary school. Realising girls can sometimes be utter bitches for no reason whatsoever is a hard life lesson to pick up.

Whatever you do, just be there for your DD. Don't force her to go out and make new friends if she's feeling delicate, but just let her know that you're there if she wants to talk about it. Sometimes knowing you have someone who will listen is comfort enough without getting any words out.

This shit won't last forever.