To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

Winchester I am excited to try my hand on the icy sword of clarity and know the two simple questions! Will I be initiated into a society if I can answer them?

What fun!

Barcoo of course the most inconvenient element in all of this is that many women do not share your view and they are as much woman as you and as entitled to decide what's best for women. So if you're waging a burka war you're screwed, basically. By women.

You must have a lot of anger and not enough sex if weaponising your breasts is all you think worked be fun to do with them. There are sound biological reasons why I would enjoy men touching my breasts and they do so it's all fine.

kua bullying threads = threads about bullying...not threads on which bullying occurs. I certainly don't feel bullied on this thread.

outnumbered certainly...but not bullied.

Winchester you are so in love with that strawman you are literally fucking it.

Well at least I know I am not a TERF as the feminists won't have me either....

gone yes I am excited by the ice sword questions too....although I'm not and never claimed to be a TA so I won't get in that club either.

The middle ground is a lonely place sometimes....ask Nick Clegg.

Alright gone I'll rise to your bait, God knows the thread is already derailed.

You do realise that 'a lot of anger and not enough sex' is a classic male trope towards feminists who challenge them. I assume you're a man, particularly with the way you talk about breasts. I've slept with a range of assorted Marxists, hippies, ruling class socialists and even a Blairite and none have objectified my breasts in the way you have described. They're quite small. So perhaps I'm a man too. I certainly have a male brain according to the British Science Museum.

singingsixpence82
Clearly the current wave of refugees is not the same demographic as men and women already socialised and living in the West but I'd imagine you'd see the same thing, but slightly less pronounced if you looked at "people more like us".

Your link is a recommendation for a specific set of circumstances and I don't think it's relevant to non refugee toilet segregation in e.g. the UK. I agree with IceBeing - segregation is essentially a societal convention (a somewhat arbitrary one at that) and inevitably might influence how comfortable (some) people feel when facilities are shared. Segregated public toilets (a product of Victorian propriety) aren't subject to much/any scrutiny or regulation and there don't seem to be any readily available crime statistics relating to them. Entering the 'wrong' toilet is not a crime in itself, so there is no legal deterrent in place if that's what somebody wants to do.

I also think we can assume that in the UK, toilets have had years of use from those whose biology at birth might not correspond to the sign on the door they choose to enter.

singingsixpence82
Clearly the current wave of refugees is not the same demographic as men and women already socialised and living in the West but I'd imagine you'd see the same thing, but slightly less pronounced if you looked at "people more like us".

Your link is a recommendation for a specific set of circumstances and I don't think it's relevant to non refugee toilet segregation in e.g. the UK. I agree with IceBeing - segregation is essentially a societal convention (a somewhat arbitrary one at that) and inevitably might influence how comfortable (some) people feel when facilities are shared. Segregated public toilets (a product of Victorian propriety) aren't subject to much/any scrutiny or regulation and there don't seem to be any readily available crime statistics relating to them. Entering the 'wrong' toilet is not a crime in itself, so there is no legal deterrent in place if that's what somebody wants to do.

I also think we can assume that in the UK, toilets have had years of use from those whose biology at birth might not correspond to the sign on the door they choose to enter.

Having carefully read your posts, goneto, I gather that you're a woman and one who either hasn't read the thread or is hard of thinking. You're getting cross with arguments all but one poster holds. That would be Ice, who thinks public nudity is the way forward.

The feminist position, at least on this board, is that we want to keep sex-segregated showers, loos, etc. We are agreeing with you on that. What did you think we were asking for?

If you'd ever worked in a boozer, fascicle, you would take a very different line. Punters in pubs and nightclubs often get drunk and aggressive. Very often there are weeping and frightened women and girls in the ladies. What with menstrual disasters and girls hiding from aggressive boyfriends or men who are hassling them... Single sex spaces are vital. Having the right to stop men entering the loos, being able to call for help in the certainty that males aren't allowed in the ladies under any circumstances. If all that goes then women will be worse off.

Similarly, the ladies loos in our shopping centre are down a poorly lit passage at the back. If men were allowed in there unchallenged I would simply stop using them and so would many others I imagine.

I think public nudity is becoming the on trend trans solution for male violence judging by fascicles latest post

This thread has gone bonkers...

WHAT are the two simple questions? It's cruel to leave me hanging like this.

Define 'woman' is one

Ok. And the other?

Why are you being coy about them?!

Disgustingly transphobic. I'm also reporting.

My giddy aunt, that is hilarious. Mumsnet at its finest.

just wanted to say that the comment in the first post 'Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head' is spot on. Not Transphobic but true.

They are secretly hidden in full view on the thread

Ratt what is disgustingly transphobic?

First - identify which specific SEX group is encountering barriers into STEM (HINT: nobody who has ever possessed a penis will ever fall into this category)
Second: create opportunity specifically and exclusively for ONLY the people who you've just observed are encountering those barriers.

You'd have thought those clever sciencey bods could manage this.

Yes, this is what is so arse about face about it. Women frequently face discrimination for reasons which don't apply to transwomen. This is one of those cases.

Sex and gender mixed up again. Convenient really. All of the arguments seem to involve mixing up sex and gender.

If anything, this should be open to women and transmen.

Agree that transmen should be eligible. But then I think they're women, so that's hardly surprising!