To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

Maybe, I don't mean to critique the parent who posted, I am sorry if it has came across like that. I just do not think it is a good position to be in where an effeminate boy is accepted as a 'girl' instead of just the person he is. I can understand being in that situation yourself it is preferable to the children bullying him. But overall, I do not think it is a good thing that we tell children that if they are more masculine or feminine than their peers, this means they are the opposite sex. Children are impressionable, and its a bit of a slippery slope.

I don't think it's right either. I'm not happy with young children being pressured and gaslighted to believe a boy is a girl, but of course I realise it's hard for all concerned in practice. I'd come down on the side of the school not doing that though, as I think it's wrong and damaging.

I don't think it is good if the children are accepting the child on the basis of "John is actually Jane because he likes girly clothes and hanging out with girls. This means that John is a girl"."

If that is what is happening (in this case or any other) then the children are being groomed. The story above mentions 11 year old peers so the kids are young, impressionable and very open to suggestion by the adults in their lives. These kids might feel differently when they hit puberty (by kids I suppose I mean the girls because they will be the ones expected to share private space with a child of the opposite sex and to absorb the message that femaleness is a feeling in anyone's head).

Children are being used by the trans movement as a Trojan horse in classic "but will nobody think of the children!" style. What sort of mean and nasty TERF would one have to be to not be accepting and tolerant of a child for crying out loud?? Particularly a very young pre-pubescent one.

So adults are being told to accept these children as transgender/the opposite sex because otherwise they are cruel and bigoted, kids are told the same and trans lobby 'educators' are given access to the schools so that they can make sure everyone is up to speed on what they are allowed to say and think.

The child who is being transed will see a "gender therapist" (who may well be transgender themselves) and only transing will be discussed as a solution to dysphoria. The discourse to the child will be "you are trans if you say you are trans" and the parents will be told that their child is a suicide risk if transing is not begun (if it hasn’t already after social contagion a Tumblr diagnosis). Talk will be of social transition and puberty blockers in order to give the child time to figure things out (of course the evidence shows that these things make transgenderism a self-fulfilling prophecy in the majority of cases) and not of the inevitable drugs and possibly surgery.

It is a scandal.

And what I am saying here is not an exaggeration, there are plenty of stories like the one I’ve told above on sites like 4th wave and other gender critical sites for parents or detransitioned people.

There may be posters reading this who think that I'm a right mean cow for saying these things on a thread on which a parent of a transitioning child has posted a personal story. But this is not a support thread, it is a discussion thread to talk about a scholarship being opened to men who transition, we weren’t particularly discussing the transing of children.

I actually feel pretty pissed off by JustTheOnceThen's posting style on this thread as they told a personal story, asked us not to be meanies and then disappeared. If you offer up a personal story on a debating / discussion thread then the chances are that story will become part of the discussion. To be honest I find posts like JustTheOnceThen's disturbing and concerning and highlighting of just how much these discussions need to be had.

You're right Beachcomber. This is not a support thread. In any case, people who talk about their parenting choices rarely receive uncritical support and understanding from all corners anywhere on mumsnet. Especially when it involves other children in a negative way, as this does. Why should they expect it here? Especially when they are saying that they don't agree with the majority viewpoint expressed on this discussion thread about women's rights and basically they want us to STFU because they don't like the views.

I think that anyone coming along and stating this is the future needs to be prepared to make a robust justification for that statement. its not ok to post from an emotional viewpoint on a discussion thread and expect everyone to say 'oh I see, well in that case......'

CharlieSierra
I think that anyone coming along and stating this is the future needs to be prepared to make a robust justification for that statement.

This is the future might be open to interpretation but I don't think it needs a robust justification. I read it as either a comment from JustTheOnceThen on acceptance from peers being broadly in line with the direction of society as a whole, or possibly a comment about her child's future path (i.e. unlikely to change).

venusinscorpio
Especially when it involves other children in a negative way, as this does.

No evidence from JustTheOnceThen's post to suggest that is the case.

Fascicle, breach describes the negative impact well

or possibly a comment about her child's future path (i.e. unlikely to change).

Unlikely to change if they keep being told that being feminine = actually being a girl, yes I agree. Bit of a bleak future though really when the alternative is to let kids accept him as a boy who likes stereotypically feminine things rather than being thrilled they see his personality as him actually being a girl, surely.

At a personal level though I agree that it would be seen as a good thing, on a wider level, not so much. With so many kids choosing to stick the middle finger up to gender stereotypes...we should be embracing that, rather than telling them this means they are the opposite sex...tbh

Of course telling 60 children that a boy is a girl involves them in a negative way, fascicle. Don't be obtuse.

We are still so far from winning the battle to teach girls about consent in general and about their right to say no to things that make them uncomfortable/afraid, because of female socialisation to always make things right for other people before yourself, that I can see this could have a very negative impact on those girls being conned into accepting that this child is actually a girl, one of them.

When they go on to secondary school, will they be expected to share showers and changing areas with him as is now happening in the States? If any of them are genuinely uncomfortable with that, will they be able to express that in the face of fear of being accused of being transphobia and condemned for a hate crime?

If they do manage to express it, will they be listened to and a solution found that they are truly comfortable with, or will they be dismissed as bigots and be expected to just put up and shut up, like the girls at Lila Perry's school?

Anything that reinforces the age old message that girls aren't allowed to prioritise their own needs and feelings over those of others is a very negative thing in my book. Anything that denies girls protection in a world that is still stacked against them in so many ways is deeply negative.

Apparently it does happen in many schools here too. Of course any girls who are unhappy or uncomfortable at changing with a boy will just be expected to get over themselves. Because only transpeople's feelings appear to be important. Certainly not those of women or girls.

Telling girls and women their feelings don't matter. So bloody radical and pushing back the frontiers of equality, isn't it, Venus.

Do you mean actual changing rooms and shower areas as well as toilets? Saddened to hear it's already happening here too if that's the case. Gutted for this generation of girls and the gaslighting they are suffering.

Putting aside the atrocious lack of concern for females though, boys are being failed here too. Telling a little boy who wants to wear a dress and socialise mostly with girls and hug people that he actually is a girl...its wrong. Sorry, it is. It is telling him he cannot simply be himself without potentially suffering years and years of hormones and medical intervention.

I'm sure people have said on support threads that their school does make girls share those facilities with transgirls, Talking. I don't know if they make any provision at all for their modesty. Probably not.

And agree boys are being failed too. It's appalling, frankly. They are being put on a path towards a life of medicalisation,sterility and disappointment that people don't accept them in the way they're being told they will. How progressive.

My daughter will be expected to share showers and toilets with males if there is a transgender student at her university

It's the university policy. And being female and afraid of the transphobia accusation she has asked me not to complain

Although knowing her she could do it herself if she finds some alliws

Its finding other people willing to stand up and be counted though thats the issue. I expect if this is a university policy there is a large trans lobby who are rather prominent. There will also be the threat of being expelled for being 'transphobic' hanging over them all. Its a bad bad situation and people are not willing to say this for fear of a label. Its all worked out rather nicely hasn't it, for some.

Almost as if its been well thought out actually...the blurring of gender and sex to lump those who are transsexual in with those who simply 'identify'

Agree wm. It's so sad. It's not just an Internet argument. Bastards just ruining things for women. They don't care who gets in their way. And they are sacrificing the lives of the most vulnerable, tiny young children on the altar of trans.

I'm so cross

Maybe there will be some complainants who will be able to counter with 'cultural insensitivity' or 'islamophobia' ? That is, if such women are even allowed to attend a uni which doesn't provide sex-segregated facilities.

Y errol but it comes to something when women can't fight in their own name

This is what the fuckers want