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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a 10 year old girl shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as "nonbinary"

429 replies

MrsJamin · 19/09/2016 11:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914

How is this story so lauded by the right-on BBC? It's so very irresponsible of the parents to persuade a girl that she doesn't need to be a girl. Girls should be told that they are girls, and that doesn't prevent them from liking or doing anything that people say boys should only do. How does she even know what hormone blockers are? She could mess up her health forever by taking hormones in her adolescence. :(

(and yes, another trans thread - I don't care, this is SCARY SHIT right here when girls don't want to be girls)

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/09/2016 12:18

Your gender identity, according to trans ideology, is something innate and unconnected to your body or life experience. I've seen it described as a "feminine essence" which rather signals what piffle it is.

If, instead of our bodies and our experience, we are women because of this mystical gender identity, transwomen can claim that they (because of their gender identity) are women in exactly the same way as other women.

The theory of gender identity only works if everyone has one. Sadly for them it appears we don't. I am a woman because of my body and how I was treated because of that body. If I'd been born with a dick I'd be a bloke.

WrongEndoftheTelescope · 22/09/2016 12:26

I've seen it described as a "feminine essence" which rather signals what piffle it is

oooo now my ladybrane is all confuzzled.

Is "feminine essence" that smell that we're told we need to eliminate with vaginal deodorants and scented sanitary towels?

Or is it a magic perfume which will bring all the boys to our yard?

WrongEndoftheTelescope · 22/09/2016 12:26

I've seen it described as a "feminine essence" which rather signals what piffle it is

oooo now my ladybrane is all confuzzled. Is "feminine essence" that smell that we're told we need to eliminate with vaginal deodorants and scented sanitary towels?

Or is it a magic perfume which will bring all the boys to our yard?

Sameoldiggi · 22/09/2016 12:36

Prawn, I am picturing us now as a group of My Little Pony style creatures jumping about.
Grin

Elendon · 22/09/2016 12:58

Cynthia

As a biologist you should recognise that all mammals are defined by biological sex. It is difficult to look at a cat or a dog and define them by appearance only by sex, - my cat, male, has a pink collar, but he is a castrated male cat. I call him he. Should he be called she because he wears a pink collar?

The body does indeed define identity. You can't ignore skin colour, racial features, no more than you can ignore genitals. It's how we treat those with those that is the problem, and that's not biology but social conditioning.

Currently in the news a woman has been banned from advertising Golliwogs in her shop in Dorset. Rightly so. Her desire to display such sentiments were derived not from biology but from social conditioning.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/09/2016 13:49

I was imagining us as a bunch of ninjas, wearing black judo-type clothes and flying over Cynth's surprised head, sameold. But I like yours too. Grin

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 13:52

I am so all over feminine essence.

WrongEndoftheTelescope · 22/09/2016 13:56

Grin Grin

To think a 10 year old girl shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as "nonbinary"
reallyanotherone · 22/09/2016 14:11

I don't think I have feminine essence. In fact I hate feminine and all it stands for (girly, pretty, weaker, etc..).

Will i be forced to transition? What do I do if I'm clearly not a girl but I have no parents to take me to a GP.

I don't want to be a boy! But I don't want to have to wear dresses and make up either. Or have a fake tan and long nails. I don't want to be an ugly girl either if I don't do all the princessing and beautifying and wearing pretty clothes.

What do I doooooo!

MissHooliesCardigan · 22/09/2016 14:27

Monkey That article is excellent. I totally agree that this has alarming similarities to Munchausens by proxy - it seems to be a way of seeking attention through her child. There are several posters on here whose DCs are genuinely struggling and suffering with gender issues but they're not clamouring to give interviews or have documentaries made about them.
I am planning to self identify as a 65 year old so that I can retire Smile
And cynth I think you've picked the wrong audience, silly! Maybe leave the Pritt sticks alone?

Elendon · 22/09/2016 15:09

Funny though, I do know people who anthropomorphise their animals, especially when it comes to gender. It's a social situation I've never been comfortable with.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 22/09/2016 15:18

Female essence. Surely the closest to that is menstrual blood?

I mean menstrual blood was written about for millennia as being the very essence of a woman, was held as being sacred. Then it was labelled as 'dirty' and 'unclean' by the Abrahamic religions and here we are now where sanpro ads show blue liquid instead.

Anyway, If anyone want's my essence give me another 10 days and I'll be good to go. I'll probably be a bit shitty if you want to discuss my essence though. Its quite a painful experience Grin

Sorry Blush

Sameoldiggi · 22/09/2016 15:44

But Twatbadging, men have periods too you know.

Sameoldiggi · 22/09/2016 15:44

Meant to add a Wink

Kennington · 22/09/2016 15:50

I have never heard of feminine essence - is it my period?

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 22/09/2016 15:59

ah but diggi the male essence is ejaculation and men have been denying women can do that for decades Grin

Thefishewife · 22/09/2016 16:01

It's like this supid Rachel women because she wears her hair in a Afro and tans she gets to call herself balck because she feels she should be a black women

Twunk · 22/09/2016 16:01

Feminine essence?! What a load of utter tripe.

DollyBarton · 22/09/2016 16:04

I think it's an interesting article and I like how the child sounds like they feel safe in exploring this. Maybe they will decide at an older age they are male or female but for now they feel neither. Where's the harm in that? The only harm would be from other people. People like many on this thread. Why can't you see that you are the ones causing the problem here not the child exploring how they feel in relation to gender.

corythatwas · 22/09/2016 16:08

To be fair (not that one particularly wants to) I suspect the word "essence" is used in the traditional philosophical meaning of "essentia", rather than in a smelly sense. As defined by Wikipedia:

"Aristotle made a distinction between the essential and accidental properties of a thing. For example, a chair can be made of wood or metal, but this is accidental to its being a chair: that is, it is still a chair regardless of the material from which it is made. To put this in technical terms, an accident is a property which has no necessary connection to the essence of the thing being described.

To take another example, all bachelors are unmarried: this is a necessary or essential property of what it means to be a bachelor. A particular bachelor may have brown hair, but this would be a property particular to that individual, and with respect to his bachelorhood it would be an accidental property. And this distinction is independent of experimental verification: even if for some reason all the unmarried men with non-brown hair were killed, and every single existent bachelor had brown hair, the property of having brown hair would still be accidental, since it would still be logically possible for a bachelor to have hair of another color.

The nine kinds of accidents according to Aristotle are quantity, quality, relation, habitus, time, location, situation (or position), action, and passion ("being acted on"). Together with "substance", these nine kinds of accidents constitute the ten fundamental categories of Aristotle's ontology."

I suppose you could twist this kind of reasoning to argue that genitals are an accidental property (like brown hair to the essence of being a bachelor), and that there is some deeper kind of womanhood which does not depend on female genitals or an experience of growing up as a female. Whether you choose to believe it is, of course, a different matter...

Twunk · 22/09/2016 16:13

The child is female Dolly - you cannot change sex.

Twunk · 22/09/2016 16:14

What "problems" are we causing?

DollyBarton · 22/09/2016 16:15

Interesting thinking Cory!

Ultimately I don't think any of us know what the person in question is actually feeling like so who are we to judge or try and force them to be like us people who feel clearly male or female. Someone up thread said she didn't feel female until late teens but realised it was just she didn't feel all pink and glittery. I suspect her feelings and the feeling of this child are possibly nothing alike. She can't presume that she understands non-binary feelings based on her own experience which turned out not to be non-binary in the end.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/09/2016 16:18

The child will not be able to decide at an older age whether they are male or female. She's a girl. That's not going to change, Dolly.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/09/2016 16:22

Feelings have nothing to do with whether you are a male or a female. Chromosomes do.