To think a 10 year old girl shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as "nonbinary"

[MrsJamin]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914

How is this story so lauded by the right-on BBC? It's so very irresponsible of the parents to persuade a girl that she doesn't need to be a girl. Girls should be told that they are girls, and that doesn't prevent them from liking or doing anything that people say boys should only do. How does she even know what hormone blockers are? She could mess up her health forever by taking hormones in her adolescence. :(

(and yes, another trans thread - I don't care, this is SCARY SHIT right here when girls don't want to be girls)

Which definition of TERF do you mean?

All the definitions I have seen state TERFs want to harm trans people yet terfisaslur.com highlights trans people inciting hatred and harm to feminists who are rightly engaging in discussion about this new political force that is only directly affecting women. Men to a lesser degree At this time.

Personally I'll go with taboo engaging rational feminist. After all, TRAs have made it 'taboo' to even discuss the many facets of the transgender movement esp when autogynaephilia, transvestic fetishim, the abuse of transwomen in porn, the role porn plays in trans identities, the male violence trans people face and actually that should be tackled rather than allowing free uncontrolled access to women's spaces and the transgendering, supply of packers and puberty blockers to very young children.

twatbadging I thought TERF meant not accepting transwomen as women.
I'm fine with that, personally.

Also Sheila Jeffreys being brilliant on "The Social and Political Construction of Transgenderism"

m.youtube.com/?hl=fr&gl=FR#/watch?v=DTPgmTVt5_Q

Unfortunately the sound isn't very good but it's well worth a watch.

TERF is trans exclusions radical feminists

I just did a Google nowffingidea and everybdefinition included 'TERFs want to harm transwomen by... Oppression, denying they are women etc etc

Soubriquet I am well aware.

Just giving new meaning to a definition thrown at us as an insult. That's what's happening in the TRAs giving long established words new meaning like 'woman' and 'female'

Matt Kailey, a woman who transitioned in her 40s, wrote an article titled 'do trans men die young?' tatlking about there being lots of FTTs 'over 50' like 50-something is a good age to make these days.

transadvocate.com/ask-matt-do-trans-men-die-young_n_8713.htm

About a year later, Matt died of heart failure. She was a late transitioner and had only been on testosterone for 15 years.

High blood pressure, blood clots, strokes, heart problems are all known side effects of testosterone. Testosterone is being given to 16-year-old kids. Kids who aren't old enough to get a tattoo (why if they're such good decision makers?) are being allowed to consent to taking these drugs even though nobody knows the long-term effects.

Fair enough

And while I'm ranting about the medical transition of teenage girls...

15-year-old Australian girl 'wins' the rights to have her breasts removed even though she's not old enough for T

14-year-old American girl born with foetal alcohol syndrome has breasts removed

All good stuff. I think more people should have their teenage decisions permanently on their bodies. Afterall, no teenager has ever been unsure of anything ever or made poor choices, right?

I'm 55. There certainly was gender division back then - mothers were less likely to have careers, fathers less likely to do housework and childcare; even more ridiculously low numbers of girls did STEM subjects at school etc. But it was an era in which it was ok not to conform to a gender binary - you could wear jeans, you could study sciences. I'm inclined to think that actually the main reason for so many of us on MN being gender-sceptical and vehemently opposed to the enforcement of gender conformity is because lots of us are parents. At my age, we either have or had teenagers. Been there, done that - thrown the pirate party for my DD, etc etc, encouraged them to be themselves - 'let kids be kids', 'let toys be toys' - and are just gobsmacked by stories like the one in this thread. Yeah, you're non-binary-gendered, welcome to the human race.

user I find this very concerning.
I know nothing was ever proved , but some people believe testosterone/anabolic steroid therapy was responsible for the death of FloJo at the age of 39.
I feel very sorry for Unicorn, and other parents in that position. I would do everything in my power to prevent them going on hormone therapy. My golden rule for good health is to avoid all non essential medication and surgery (and that's speaking as a former nurse).

Maybe there should be a separate forum for people who want to say that threads like this annoy them and should be in a separate forum....

There is, I believe its called flouncers corner

But yeah, all I see is insults and leaving. I would actually like to have a conversation with someone who disagrees with me. We had that in a few of the other threads, people civilly discussing differences in opinion without any insults or attempts to shut down the conversation. It was nice and informative. Branding anyone a 'TERF' who refuses to play along with everything to do with trans right now is just fucking ignorant.

Its became quite clear that womens rights and trans rights are not completely compatible with each other. Why shouldn't people pick up on this?

I also cannot for the life of me understand why those who shout 'TERF' and such go along with self-identification. Self-identification is what brought these issues to light in the first place. I don't for a minute think many would be concerned if transsexual still had the meaning it always did...trapped in the wrong body, inner turmoil, hormones, surgery, etc.

FWIW I am a terf and only 30

Well, I say only. Just been in the schoolyard where someone accused me of being my child's grandma

About a year later, Matt died of heart failure. She was a late transitioner and had only been on testosterone for 15 years.

This is common. I have many FTT friends (I used to have many butch lesbian friends, but now they're all FTT, I guess butch is going the way of the dodo). Lots of them have heart problems in their 30s.

This US critique of the BBC story is interesting: "there’s still something emotionally gripping and a little bit sad about this story: Listening to Leo’s mom describe his life, I just couldn’t figure out exactly what problem the family is trying to solve."

Refreshingly sane - as one would hope from something called 'The Science of Us'

I was just coming to share that link

There are a host of medical problems faced by FTTs that don't get talked about - from vaginal atrophy to strokes, heart attacks and osteoporosis. Taking T is a serious medical problem for men. I know a bodybuilder who died at 49 - widely acknowledged as resulting from T. Why would any doctor think a girl could take T for a life time is beyond me.

There was a BTL commentator on the Guardian a few years ago who used to write movingly about his sister who was severely disabled following a stroke after transitioning and he was very vocal about these risks being swept under the carpet. Of course, he was denounced as transphobic.

when my 19 year old son was at preschool aged 3, he decided he wanted to be called Bella (loved Bella on the Tweenies) and wouldn't answer to his real name so for a couple of weeks at home, we called him Bella and he soon got bored and back to himself and has always been very much male. My 22 year old used to want his nails painting so I'd do his toenails, he also loved a face of makeup which we just let him do. Soon back to his toy cars.

I'm so glad to find this thread. I listened to the Radio 4 interview like this >

This thread also been interesting to read - some very thought provoking links and posts.

I too listened to the Radio 4 programme feeling shocked, angry and sad for that child.

He/She decides each day when they wake up if they are going to be a boy or a girl. That is one very confused child who doesn't need to be pushed onto deciding whether or not she is gay or straight.

The ignorance of the mother shocked me so much. Saying the child was "always a Tom boy and didn't want princesses at her party" how the fuck dies that make her a boy?!

She is harming her child.

The mother also made a very flippant comment about how she was used to dealing with unusual things as her other child had decided to be a vegetarian. Stupid woman!

But what about the kids who genuinely actually are trans, not confused or going through a phase? What about their rights?

By what criteria would you judge that they are "actually" trans? What does it mean to be a trans child?

Something like only 1 in 5 gender confused kids go on to actually transition. If this isn't handled properly then that could be a lot of kids screwed up for no reason. There was a report/study/article on this where the writer said that as long as help/ blockers etc was provided to help the one genuine transchild - then it didn't matter if the other 4 kids became collateral damage as the trsnschild's situation was a priority.