To think a 10 year old girl shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as "nonbinary"

[MrsJamin]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914

How is this story so lauded by the right-on BBC? It's so very irresponsible of the parents to persuade a girl that she doesn't need to be a girl. Girls should be told that they are girls, and that doesn't prevent them from liking or doing anything that people say boys should only do. How does she even know what hormone blockers are? She could mess up her health forever by taking hormones in her adolescence. :(

(and yes, another trans thread - I don't care, this is SCARY SHIT right here when girls don't want to be girls)

MrsToddsShortcut 31 here and I feel in the minority. I am definitely gender critical.

unicorn I second what others have said that 80% do mature and become more accepting of who they are.

Turmoil in teens is normal. Large numbers of us have had questions around our sexuality and have experimented before finding our path.

Large numbers of us have dealt with self hatred, panic, worry and anxiety over our maturing bodies.

I think for the majority it's a disjoint between the still immature brain and the maturing adult body. The body often matures faster and when the mind catches up kids find their path, like many of us here have, and they do find themselves in a much happier place be it straight/gay/bi or lesbian.

Thanks Beyond (don't know how to highlight names on here like everyone else does!!!) - I have already asked about Aspergers - I have been told that many children with dysphoria (especially those with gender identity problems) are on the spectrum somewhere. My DD also shows other signs such as emotional detachment (not always, but sometimes) and is also incredibly artistic (not that all artists have Aspergers before I start another thread!). I will definitely take a look at the chart.

My DD has always wanted to run with her dysphoria but I have slowed her right down.... she MUST be an adult before any decisions are made (if they are at all) - I just hope and pray that this is an adolescent thing and she finds out who she is naturally... not that I don't take it seriously I may add - I may end up with a 2nd DS after all!

Goodness Beyond... too many of the examples on this table are very similar to my DD ... will definitely take a highlighted copy to the next appointment (to show the psychologist when DD is out of the room)

I'm 50+ and I've just had a small debate with my teenage son who called me 'surprisingly transphobic for a feminist'. I said if believing in XX and XY as chromosomal facts makes me a fucking transphobe, then he's wasting his time doing A level Biology, he should be doing Fantasy Studies.

Who is teaching them this shit?

No problem unicorn, I'm glad you found it useful :)

Good luck, unicorn. wishing you well.

I'd be interested (this is only a theory) to find out (very broadly) how many women commonly regarded as TERFS are over 35 and how many who support the gender narrative are under 35? I only ask because I am in my late 40's and grew up in a world with very few gendered toys.

I'm interested too and same age as you. Difference is, when i was younget - i was a complete trans ally and would have loudly argued with the nasty Terfs, this is before i actually took an interest and actually started reading up both sides of the debate, i think many young people are just blindly accepting as many young people are in their need to be on trend, different, progresive, tolerant etc.

I understand kids buying into mon binary. I very often got mistaken for a boy right up till late teens because of very short hair, no make up and fairly non gendered clothes.

Wonder what would happen if we all identified as non binary or trans.

I just read this blog post

bornnotmadeblog.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/our-lost-generation/

Which speaks about the Leo story. It speaks a lot of sense, bit is quite angry and some may find parts offensive.

Good luck Unicorn, your children are lucky to have you on their side.

Unicorn

You are doing the right thing by being there for your child but also trying to put off any lifechanging decisions until she is old enough to make them. As has been pointed out a very large percentage of children effectively' grow out of' this stage and while some do not, surgery and hormones are not necessarily the answer anyway. But thats up to the child to decide what route they go down..when they are old enough to do so.

--------------

The links I promised last night

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/wow-first-ever-survey-of-two-hundred-female-detransitioners

guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149877706175/female-detransition-and-reidentification-survey

Average time in 'therapy' was 9 months, IF any. This is the extensive theraphy we are constantly told happens before any serious decisions are made. MANY of the participants did not have any therapy at all before medically transitioning. This is scary shit really.

117 of the individuals surveyed had medically transitioned. Of these, only 41 received therapy beforehand. The average length of counseling for those who did attend was 9 months, with a median and mode of 3, minimum of 1, and a maximum of 60. I’d like to have something cool to say here, but I’m honestly just stunned at the fact that 65% of these women had no therapy at all before transition.

The actual answers are well worth a read too, not just the statistics.

I'm 25 and a lesbian. I know more lesbians than straight people. Almost all of the lesbians that I know have bought into this bullshit like 'LGBT; we're all the same!' type crap. Everybody knows an 'ex'-lesbian who's allegedly much happier living 'as a man'. I don't remember any of them being deeply unhappy as lesbians (some of them were seriously proud lesbians) so I guess they were all in denial. I do know a couple of gender crit men in their mid-20s.

I think we'll see big problems for today's FTTs in 10 years time. The vast majority of them look like teenage boys. Fine when you're in your late teens and early 20s. In ten years time, everybody is going to be able to spot a FTT from a mile away by the fact that they look like aging teenage boys because they can't change their height, build, bone structure, etc.

That blog post is very good. Pirates and princesses, indeed.

"I think a 10 year old is capable of identifying if they are gay."

11-yr-old DD is not at all capable of identifying anything remotely related to sexuality. Grimaces at the thought of kissing on the lips, more interested in Star Wars & Pokemon than anything else.

Socialising children who are nowhere near being biologically sexual is just wrong.

User - you csn't be right. According to the trsnsfolk i see commenting - the vast majority of trans folk pass and all look like Buckangel or Janet Mock, in fact Jen Richards durring her recent hoohaar on trans actors said she was fed up being turned down for roles because she passed too well and didn't look trans enough.

Ah yes, the confusion of childhood.

I remember being sure that girls could have willies and vice-versa at 5/6. And women hairy chests for much longer (and I don't think I was wrong there ). I also remember being told in no uncertain terms that I could not wear a cowboy suit at playgroup because that was for boys, by the other children .

Then I found out all the things women 'had' to do like have breasts and periods and sex and babies. I certainly did not want to be one.

As I got older, I did not like the changes in my body, was worried I would never be a proper woman after my genitals changed and vowed to live my life as a virgin and study maths, like the maths teacher (no idea of what she actually did in her private life -she was just 'Miss' ) As I got older, I was very restricted by my parents, and got quietly suicidal.

I finally escaped to uni, found DH who was just the sort of boy I would have played with when I was little, was overcome by my hormones (and alcohol), nearly failed my degree and ended up a very stereotypical naice girly 50+ mother of 3.

I think a non-judgemental listening ear would probably gone a long way, and constant reassurance that what you are is good enough.

(The blog was interesting - misuse of the Barbies/Sindies/Pippas perfectly normal IME ).

Oh naff off! I'm not a terf and neither are many folk who are still critical and concerned on trans demands and ideology. You wouldn't want to misidentify us would you - that could be literally violence. You realise there are very few spaces we can safely tslk about our cencetns and beliefs on this. Why are you trying to silence us in one of the few places we can,

It's #PERF, tyvm

I have just listened to the programme in horror. At no point does the interviewer pick up on any of the comments about oh we asked her what she wanted for her birthday party and she said pirates not princesses so she must be a boy. Irresponsible to an extreme. According to this agenda, I live as a boy, as I always wear 'boys clothes' (trousers). DH loves ballet by the way.

This has to stop. How do we make it stop?

The mother says smugly that if this situation had arisen 30 years ago things would be very hard for Leo. I completely disagree. If this had arisen 25 years ago no one would have noticed. Leo wouldn't have had a bright pink bedroom. Leo would have just had a bedroom. Ditto with clothes. Ditto with toys. Leo would have gone to school looking just like all the other children in a jumper and trousers. Leo wouldn't have to declare his gender because gender just wasn't important in a 10 year olds life. And nor should it be.

What can we do to stop it?

Oh goody, iceroad, another random poster insulting the whole thread while, at the same time, failing to provide even a glimmer of argument against it.

If you don't agree with us tell us why, and most importantly, justify your reasons.

I had a look around and it turns out that the wonderful Stephanie Davies Arai gave a talk on this at Conway Hall.

m.youtube.com/?hl=fr&gl=FR#/watch?v=PZgbcvwFxHg

What she says about the various social and medical interventions leading onto each other is very interesting. (Reminded me of the "cascade of intervention" when women give birth.)

Unicorn, she also mentions autism so you might be interested in her talk or her website if you are not already familiar with them.

Maybe there should be a separate forum for people who want to say that threads like this annoy them and should be in a separate forum....

This HORSESHIT is an existential threat to women. It must be called out regularly, repeatedly, and angrily.

User - you csn't be right. According to the trsnsfolk i see commenting - the vast majority of trans folk pass and all look like Buckangel or Janet Mock, in fact Jen Richards durring her recent hoohaar on trans actors said she was fed up being turned down for roles because she passed too well and didn't look trans enough.

Given that they all pass so well, I'm not sure why they keep making a fuss about bathrooms. None of us would ever know if they just used them because they all totally pass

I've unintentionally misgendered FTTs a bunch of times because I don't realise they're going for male until they start growing beards and going bald. Before that, they just look like butch lesbians.

55 here, and definitely a TERF. Yes, I do think age is a factor.
Something that does concern me, and is only just starting to come to be discussed, is the long term health consequences of early FTT.

Placemarking