Page 29 | Would you give up your surname of you got married?

DryIce · 19/09/2016 23:09

I'm late back to the party! But StatisticallyChallenged you took issue with someone I said a few pages back and I think you've misinterpreted me.

I don't think women are too stupid come to a valid decision.

When I talk about societal pressure in relation to this choice, it is that it is entirely one way. This is not something a man has to devote any brain space to ever. We have now had 29 pages discussing an issue that my lovely and progressive husband has literally never considered.

So I can't see that the 'whose name to take ' choice can ever be entirely impartial

DioneTheDiabolist · 19/09/2016 23:16

Choices are not made in a vacuum.

That is stating the bleeding obvious. My choice to change my surname wasn't made in a vacuum, it was influenced by my experience and the world I live in. Isn't everyones?

Wrinklytights · 19/09/2016 23:20

I changed my name and regret it. I'm still happily married 10 years later, but I'm also 10 years older and more confident about defending my own views, which have become more feminist and more aware of the patriarchy that surrounds us. I would definitely not change my name if I was getting married today.

GardenGeek · 19/09/2016 23:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OvO · 19/09/2016 23:49

Seriously, you'd all keep a penis-y name rather than change it?

No way was I passing it onto my DC, for them to also grow up being asked, "is your middle name sucks/loves/rides?" Etc, etc. So many rude comments, so little time.

My DH suggested we make up a new family name but I was pg so I think I was struggling thinking of a first name so just said we'd go with his name. I do wish I'd said yes, we could have had an awesome name now! Ah well.

I'm not disagreeing that there's feminist issues with surnames. I'm reading and agreeing with a lot of what is said. But I bloody well made MY choice after thinking it through - how is that unfeminist?

BertrandRussell · 20/09/2016 00:07

No, probably not. But that's a good reason to change- not just "I didn't even think about it- I just changed"

You're one of the few people on this thread who actually seems to have made a thoughtful informed decision!

BertrandRussell · 20/09/2016 00:11

"Parts of 3rd wave (me included) think that ANY choice a women makes of her own free will is a feminist choice (including page 3, porn etc), and to say its not, is well just weird."

How do you decide whether you are making the decision of your own free will, and not because you are being swayed by generations of societal expectations, or because your prospective husband would "go mental" or "be offended"?

What if that decision is damaging to other women?

GardenGeek · 20/09/2016 00:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoldLady · 20/09/2016 00:42

Love my surname and wouldn't change it if I were to marry. It means so much to me.

MargaretCavendish · 20/09/2016 06:39

Are you sure your not now making a feminarchy to makeup for the years of patriarchy.

Oh, you're a troll. That makes sense.

BertrandRussell · 20/09/2016 06:44

"Are you sure your not now making a feminarchy to makeup for the years of patriarchy.

Oh, you're a troll. That makes sense."

Oh bugger, and I got sucked right in.

Daytona79 · 20/09/2016 06:58

Yes I like keeping with traditions

AdaLovelacesCat · 20/09/2016 07:02

" Yes I like keeping with traditions "

Well traditionally, women were barred from universities and from top jobs.
Traditionally, men were allowed to beat their wives.
Traditionally, women were not expected to work outside the home.
Traditionally, professions had a 'glass ceiliing'
Traditionally,,,,,,,(OK that is enough now, ed.)

Some women have just never thought deeply about it, it would appear.

Creativemode · 20/09/2016 07:04

Gardengeek are you for real? Why should a man change his name? Making up for years of patriarchy?

Equality would mean that either no one changed their name. Or, that roughly 50% of men and 50% of women would change their name once they got married.

As it stands women are very passive about their names. We've heard reasons such as not liking their name, thinking of it as only their fathers name and it was never theirs, wanting to have the same name as their children, it's just what you do, their husband expected it, it's only a name, their husbands name suited them.

Yet men (in general) are rather aggressive about KEEPING their name thy hold pride in it, they want to carry on their amity name through generations of MEN.

That's not equality and it's not free thinking.

Of course women can make a thought out and balanced decision of course they can. But there are social expectations and norms, and even more to give children their fathers name, which then puts double the pressure into women because 'it's easier' to share their children's name.

Oblomov16 · 20/09/2016 07:14

I did. I consider it the norm. I dont understand the strong feelings people have about it.

53rdAndBird · 20/09/2016 07:23

I dont understand the strong feelings people have about it.

Did your husband ever seriously consider changing his name? If not, why not ask him why he has such strong feelings about it?

AdaLovelacesCat · 20/09/2016 07:25

" I dont understand the strong feelings people have about it."

well then I suggest you put your brain into gear.

Bambambini · 20/09/2016 07:29

Garden geek - jesus i'm not much of a feminist and don't read up or subscribe to one wave or another. However, after resding your post i can completely see the second wave's frustration at 3rd wave feminists being femininsim "lite" and too concerned with being nice and inclusive to all just to be popular.

moonfacebaby · 20/09/2016 07:32

I didn't change mine. Always said I wouldn't - I have a very unusual surname & there was no way I was going to give that up. I also never understood why the woman has to give up her name - so we double-barrelled.

I think it's a very personal thing to do anyway - I don't judge anyone for it. It's your name to do as you please with & if you want to change it, go ahead.

JoansPenNecklace · 20/09/2016 07:32

I changed mine. Our names sound dreadful double-barrelled, we wanted the same name as a family unit and we don't like either of our surnames. His is worse, to be fair, but it would have caused a fall out with his parents if he changed his surname so picking his was the path of least resistance.

HeCantBeSerious · 20/09/2016 07:45

it would have caused a fall out with his parents if he changed his surname so picking his was the path of least resistance.

In what way?

JoansPenNecklace · 20/09/2016 08:07

HeCantBeSerious - in that they are very difficult people, misogyny being one of their many delightful traits. They would definitely have felt DH was cutting ties with them, under the thumb, ashamed of his family etc etc. If I had a nice surname then DH possibly would have changed, and explained why. But the likelihood is it would have caused a huge fall out and we don't need that stress right now so me taking his name seemed the best option for us, as mine isn't one I liked anyway! I would like to be able to drop into conversation one day that it wasn't a "done deal" and we considered him changing, and I possibly will, but they will never change their very old fashioned views and falling out would upset DH and his wider family. However, if they start saying misogynistic things in front of DCs as they get older DH has agreed we will say something. Bit off topic I know, sorry!

Bambambini · 20/09/2016 08:10

"His is worse, to be fair, but it would have caused a fall out with his parents if he changed his surname so picking his was the path of least resistance."

I think this perfectly shows that women are considered less important than men. The whole name changing thing is so deeply ingrained - i think it's impossible to say that we aren't all affected and coerced by it. It's obviously changing (if fairly sliwly) though as more women are keeping their name,

Blu · 20/09/2016 08:12

"So if you and DH are equal why should he give up his name instead of you? If its such a terrible thing then surely DH shouldn't do it either

Or are we basing this on the principle that no one joins/ changes names etc whatsoever? Or are we making new names instead?"

No one is looking for some sort of law.

Just a re-balancing of the great mainstream of tradition and expectation that if a couple do want a name n common the default position is that the woman changes her name.

I think you are right that men do not make decisions in order to benefit other men. But they have collectively made decisions that support their own drive for power and control over women, and one man's tribal drive to name his woman and children, keep her away from other men, keep her in the home etc , whether from protection or control, will be recognisable to other men and they will collude in supporting a system that gives them that.

All women are saying about names is 'ask the question' and 'look at the status quo - does it suggest equality'. it clearly does not.

JoansPenNecklace · 20/09/2016 08:41

I'm not defending my decision as being a feminist decision. Just being honest about the factors at play when deciding. I've often thought about whether I would take a man's name, over the years, and have never had strong feelings about whether I would but strongly believe all couples should think about it rather than just blithely accept the status quo. Turns out, I went the traditional route. I'm also a SAHM having thought long and hard about (and struggled with) the implications to my status, career, autonomy and whether it is a legitimate choice for a feminist. For me, sometimes practical factors outweigh ideological factors in decision making, but I feel happy that I have asked those questions of myself.