To not like the organ donation pressure?

[AtSea1979]

Don't get me wrong I fully support an opt out rather than in policy.
However DD (7 yo) has come home with a form and is asking lots of questions and it all seems a bit much. She has asked me what would I do if she died and whether I'd let them remove her organs etc and whether I'd do the same if it was me. The head cheerfully informed me they have an important letter we all should sign.
I find it all a bit bully tactics, surely it's a personal choice and nothing to do with anyone else.

A child in my daughter's class had a liver transplant when she was 4.

If anything were to happen to my children, I would immediately offer their organs because the idea that somebody else could lose their child as well because of my squeamishness, is gut-wrenching. Also, to be able to save perhaps several other children's lives (?) would be a tiny ray of comfort, I think.

Obv. no hesitation in giving up my own organs when I die - go for it! It's just that children's organs are so very, very precious and rare in particular.

Opt out all the way.

Proud organ donor. My sister died 3 years ago from Cystic Fibrosis. She had been on the list for new lungs for years and years. A lot of CF patients pass before they get their transplants. It's quite childish of some to say they're squeamish or can't bear the though or whatever. We'll be dead? They can hollow me out and chuck the rest of me in the bin for all I care. I want to save people, I wanted my sister to be saved. DH sees my card when I open up my purse and always begs me to opt out for the sake of our kids. Wtf he is talking about I don't know. If there is pressure on you to become a donated OP it's because there's pressure on the transplant lists. Don't sweat it. You've chose to not donate so end of story really.

Proud organ donor. My sister died 3 years ago from Cystic Fibrosis. She had been on the list for new lungs for years and years. A lot of CF patients pass before they get their transplants. It's quite childish of some to say they're squeamish or can't bear the though or whatever. We'll be dead? They can hollow me out and chuck the rest of me in the bin for all I care. I want to save people, I wanted my sister to be saved. DH sees my card when I open up my purse and always begs me to opt out for the sake of our kids. Wtf he is talking about I don't know. If there is pressure on you to become a donated OP it's because there's pressure on the transplant lists. Don't sweat it. You've chose to not donate so end of story really.

'If you don't give - you shouldn't receive. But not easy to introduce or enforce.'

And ridiculous. Some people cannot donate. This is usually people who've had certain forms of cancer. But they can receive.

I get the impression that a lot of people's opinions on whether 'opt-out' is a good or bad thing stem from their opinion/attitude towards 'The State'.

Is 'The State' a big, powerful overlord intent on quashing civil liberty and taking over the very autonomy of our own bodies?

Or is the state trying to reduce organ donor waiting lists and save lives?

jassy from further upthread: "Any person (including children who's wishes have been decided by their parents) who opts out should be illegible to receive any organ. (Or at least go to the back of the queue being those who have opted in, regardless of clinical priority)." and goes on to say that it shouldn't be possible to change one's stance after a condition has been diagnosed.

Don't understand not donating - you're dead, who cares?

When my grandma died my mum was with her and said when it happened, she could visibly see that this body was no longer her mother - what had made her 'her' had gone. You can't hang into a 'whole' body because it housed your loved one if you could help someone else live.

I would donate my kid's organs without hesitation.

I'm not including people who opt-out due to a legitimate moral or religious objection

Pretty oxymoronic there.

It worries me a bit that someone who really doesn't want their organs donated and isn't aware of the change, of low intelligence or simply doesn't get around to opting out may have it done anyway

Why would it worry you. They're dead. They can't be upset. They're dead.

Should the worst happen then yes make the decision... but to add a baby/child to the register seems odd to me.

I think it all needs to happen pretty quickly. Should it be a case of turning a machine off then the recipients are prepared before the organs are harvested. Should one of my children die I know I wouldn't be thinking straight. As it is now, thinking clearly, I'd want their death to benefit others.

But it's not even opt in, if I die despite my wishes being to donate my organs, it would be my DH who decides as next of kin. Surely in an opt out situation this would be the same?

You're correct but this shouldn't happen imo. The law should be changed so that the wishes become similar to a will ie. what happens to the estate of the deceased.

I think not being prepared to donate organs is repellent behaviour.

Hear hear.

FWIW, my body'll be a cadaver at my alma mater. Training a Dr. or surgeon or whatever else can save many more than 53 lives. I guess it's an even more squeamish subject but why would I care. As long as I'm dead I'll know nothing of it. If they try to do it when I'm alive I'll be pissed off!

I'd love to know how many people who wouldn't donate their bits would change their mind if they or a loved one were dying but could be saved by a donor.

"Is 'The State' a big, powerful overlord intent on quashing civil liberty and taking over the very autonomy of our own bodies?" well, the state certainly has enough control over what information we do and don't have, what we do and don't have access to. The child abuse scandal is a clear indication of where the state reserves it's right to exercise control....

Let's look at the alderhey organ scandal where hundreds of children's organs were retained without their parents' consent. Imagine if we had opt-out, they wouldn't need consent, and none of it would be a scandal because those organs would be the property of the state to do with as they chose regardless of their parents' wishes.

Anyone who thinks that the state's reasoning is entirely altruistic is incredibly naive.

And all the people saying "if my child died I would most definitely want to/would be comforted by.... How do you know? Unless you have actually lost a child, you cannot possibly know how you would feel or what you would do or how you would react, and it is bloody insulting to suggest what you would find comfort from if you've never actually been in the position of losing a child. Because many parents feel they cannot donate their child's organs, or have chosen to do so but it hasn't brought them particular comfort, their child is still gone.

Many people state for instance that if someone killed their child they would go out and kill them. Yet this doesn't happen with any great amount of regularity because thinking what you would do in the hypothetical situation and being in the position to actually do it are two entirely different situations.

In the cold light of day thinking "oh, if my child died I'd give their organs in a heartbeat" is just a thought, an imagined possibility made while thinking at the same time "but it won't ever happen to me anyway." It's an entirely different situation from sitting next to your child's bedside and being told that they are never going to wake up, ever, and please would you consider signing this form......

Nobody has the right to tell someone what they should do or feel or think at the time they are faced with losing their child. Because nobody can possibly know.

There are lots of reasons to donate and all are relevant to the person who are refusing to donate.
I won't be donating.
Because if Person A had liver failure and was on the brink of death and needed a new liver, and I managed to somehow kill myself in a way that meant I died in hospital and my liver was offered to them,
My liver would prolong their life yes, but make them very ill (Incurable and irreversible)
But thats fine, I'll keep listening to how awful I am for not being a donor....

Why is a 7yo being asked about organ donation?? Is that for real???

I'm fiercely pro-donation, but I don't understand how anyone could think asking small children to consider the personal issues & decisions is a good thing. It's too distressing for young kids to think about.

Rackham sorry for your loss. It sounds like you will need to get your DH onside if you want your wishes to be carried out.

On the earlier point about respect, I don't think it's is a given that people have to respect each other's decisions. I can respect a decision where I understand and empathise with the reasons, even if it's not the same decision I would make. But I wouldn't automatically respect someone's decision just because they said they had spent time thinking about it.

you cannot possibly know how you would feel or what you would do or how you would react, and it is bloody insulting to suggest what you would find comfort from if you've never actually been in the position of losing a child

I think you can. Things that are important to you don't suddenly just change. All the people who donate organs didn't just decide to suddenly on the spot, they thought about it ahead of time.
If you've believed your whole life in organ donation youre not likely to say actually nah when confronted with it.
And many of us do know that loss.

*It worries me a bit that someone who really doesn't want their organs donated and isn't aware of the change, of low intelligence or simply doesn't get around to opting out may have it done anyway

Why would it worry you. They're dead. They can't be upset. They're dead.*
Well if thats the case then why is sex with a dead person illegal?
They don't care, they can't be upset, they're DEAD!
Same with grave robbing, they don't need it, they're dead!
Slippery slope.

But thats fine, I'll keep listening to how awful I am for not being a donor...

I don't think anyone has said you'd be awful for not donating. You've made it clear you have an illness that would prevent you from donating.

I think everyone without exception has said that people who do not donate for medical reasons are totally justified.

Oh, don't be silly, cocklodger. If you are not able to donate because your organs are not suitable that's an entirely different thing.

Thank you eminthebigsmoke.

I don't try to sign up my DH or kids. That's going to have to be their choice. But when DDs come home with a leaflet/form like that I guess my thoughts will be a little different than OP given the fact I've seen first hand and loved a person in desperate need of an organ donation. I don't have a problem at all with people not signing up for, definitely their choice. But moaning about the 'pressure' when there are people laid up in hospital with the pressure of finding a new organ or losing their life. I find it all abit precious. Chuck it in the bin and get on with your life. Don't moan about it.

Thats not even a decision to not donate, if you aren't allowed anyway.

Like how I used to be a blood donor, but now I banned for reasons beyond my control. Not the same as someone who could easily donate and would be allowed to but doesn't want to.

I completely agree with WannaBe.

I wdnt like the school sending home a letter. I wdnt sign it. God forbid I was ever in such a predicament id like to think id make the 'right' choice.
I'm on the register myself, but obv its a much more emotive issue when it involves ones children.

Its an interesting discussion. Personally I agree that there shouold be an opt-out system as there is in other countries. I agree though that I wouldn't be keen on discussing it with young children, but I suppose I naively assumed that if anything happened to DS he wouldn't need to consent because we would do that for him. I forgot that there may be a horrible scenario in which me and his dad might not be there to do that. I think I will sign him up.

My view is that if the absolute worst happened to DS i would 100% want him to donate for several reason, but the selfish one is that I feel like he would 'live on' in some way by being able to save the lives of others. Might be a bit airy fairy I suppose but it is one way of looking at things.

"If you've believed your whole life in organ donation youre not likely to say actually nah when confronted with it." you can't know that.

There was a programme on BBC1 a few years ago where a man had been paralysed in a car crash and left on life support. His family stated that he had said he would never want to live like that, and arrangements were made to turn off the machines so that he could die in a dignified manner.

It turned out that he was able to communicate with the doctors through blinking, and was able to communicate that actually, he didn't want to die after all.

It's very easy to know what you will do or think in the hypothetical. It's another thing entirely to be faced with that situation in reality and to still think that you want the same things. yes, for some people the decision is the same, but it's not a given.

After that programme the man was moved to a rehab clinic but would never be able to walk or talk or move again other than through blinks etc. Yet the life he swore he would never want was the life he chose when push came to shove.

And all his family and friends were sobered by the fact that they could have decided for him what he should do based on a conversation down the pub.

Opinion is different to decision.