£9000 per year plus living costs and it is policy for the university tutor not to talk to,parents...am I being too precious?

[MillyDLA]

Just wondered your thoughts. My ds has missed the credits needed to move to his next year at uni, failing one exam by 2%. He has only just been told today that he can't return to uni until Sept 2017. I would have liked to have discussed this and meet with the personal tutor to support my ds in making the right choices. I want him to stop and consider all of his future options. However, even with my ds present the uni have refused any contact. I know my ds is a grown up, but this is a big decision. Added to that are all of the financial implications, student loans, a flat signed for for the whole of next year and future career/change of degree options. Big decisions to make.

I am interested in your thoughts around the lack of contact by the uni.

Thanks

The Data Protection argument is a red herring. Can it be dropped- please? We've had several posters here who work in unis and are DP experts who say that it's quite possible for parents to be involved in discussions if their child wishes etc etc. (I know this too from my professional work having spoken to uni pastoral staff.)

Posters seem to be muddling (in their heads) 'laws' around DP- which have now been discounted thanks to informed posters putting us all straight - and their notion that an 18-19 yr old is legally 'adult' so should stand on their own two feet.

I can only guess that maybe 90% of posters here have not got 18-21 yr old children who are or have been through uni.

A 'person' of 17 does not magically become a mature adult on their 18th birthday. In law, yes, in behaviour and emotional maturity, no. Not always or often.

I'm shocked at the callous 'he must man-up' attitude of most posers who simply appear not to have a clue how many young men are- have you not read anything about student suicide and depression at uni? Many young people are not coping.

This doesn't mean that mum or dad has to go and meet the vice chancellor or Dean about exam results and plead for leniency or whatever. (And I can't see what the OP would hope to achieve with a meeting) but this doesn't mean that parents aren 't and won't be involved in helping their child with difficult decisions.

To be honest Polly, I just think people are thick but not prepared to let them stop them from doing a bit of OP bashing.

Albert: I was being a little glib, fair enough, but fees were balanced out by cuts. This from a from a Parliamentary research paper: 'The responsibility for funding teaching in England has been shifted further away from the public sector towards the individual (graduate). The financial impact on the sector as a whole need not be negative if they can raise enough through additional tuition fees (backed by publicly subsidised loans). '

Bless you, you seem to be under the illusion the above is still true. You're probably not aware but fees haven't increased for five years so although the fees/funding broadly gave us the same income back in 2012 that is nowhere near the case now. We also had a blanket 3% clawback last year thanks to Gideon.

Any how, to the OP, it's your son you should be directing your ire at. He's failed twice - quite impressive for a first year! And he totally did realise he has to pass! What did he think the resit was for?!

Ssash various lawyers and people trained in data protection have been on this thread and pointed out that it isn't the law it is a policy , probably because like many things the law is too difficult to train people in so organisations put blanket policies in place .

OP sympathies I have been in a similar position to you , my DC didn't want us to meet the university and I am proud of him for dealing with it with us behind him on the phone .It helped that they, eventually , came to their own decision about what they wanted to do so had a goal in mind.I would recommend your son speaks to the advisors at the students union, they were brilliant with my DC and also gave a written report setting out the options so they , and we, could keep checking details etc .

I would beware taking advice from tutors , I am afraid our experience is that they often don't understand the arcane regulations themselves and give incorrect advice etc .Totally not meaning too but admin doesn't tend to be their strong point.I have recently experieced this first hand with a well regarded dept and university , I was given completely wrong answers re regulations and three tutors contradicted each other !It turned out that the information on the website was also wrong .

The people talking about consent are treating it like there wouldn't be any legal implications if the university were, for example, to disclose something in the discussion that the student later decided they did not like being disclosed (a previous fail not known to parents, academic problems, health problems etc.).

Exactly. It is not possible for a student to tick a box upon entrance - we have to be much more careful than this. My university's policy - to comply with the law - is that the student should be present when we discuss with parents, so that the student can explicitly control what is disclosed to parents.

Staff are under huge pressure to publish research papers throughout the year and often spend the summer months involved in research activities so holding resits in September is fairly common especially in a research led Uni.

Research is NOT the reason that resits are held at the end of the summer. The administration for the main examination period does not finish until the end of June with graduation in July. The administrators are incredibly busy until the end of July preparing degree transcripts, certificates, writing letters to those who failed telling them the next steps etc. August is then spent preparing the resit exams, printing them, setting up timetables for the resits, sending papers to external examiners to scrutinise etc.

The end of August is the first available opportunity for the resits to happen. Academics have to miss research conferences to come back for resits. The exams are then marked very quickly indeed, so that the results are communicated several weeks before the next semester starts.

I have never ever seen a student who works reasonably fail a resit - the threshold for a pass is usually only 40%, which should be accessible to anybody who has been following the course, after revising over the summer.

excellent post again pollyperky

Another ex-academic (albeit a very junior one) very keen to know what the OP would like to cover in the meeting with the university. Do you not trust the information your DC is providing? It may be helpful to work on those skills, albeit belatedly, than try to take over the information gathering stage.

Thanks ssd and YourFace.

It IS odd that her son wasn't aware of the requirements for year 2 but it's totally unnecessary and cruel to be sarcastic about him failing his exam and his retake. Shame on the poster who said that!

Maybe he thought that because Yr 1 exams don't count towards the final degree level, he didn't appreciate he still had to pass to go into Year 2?

He is an adult, it's tough really. Were you planning on holding his hand at job interviews?

As someone said upthread it is rare to fail a resit , except perhaps in medicine.In all the cases I have known there have been other underlying issues which have played a part in this and which have eventually come to light.Most tutors are unlikely to know the student well enough or frankly have time to investigate or to spot this so frequently they simply have to take things at face value.Especually in year 1 , to spot that a young person is acting deeply out of character , can be difficult , the young person may not themselves understand why they are not coping and in my experience young men in particular are very reluctant to seek help.

There is an epidemic of mental health problems in universities today , we don't yet understand why this is but when a young person is panicking and vulnerable and possibly unable to cope with the situation in which they find themselves , however much it may be of their own making then a parent may need and will probably want to get involved, not to solve the problem for them but just to help them find their own solution.

Totally crazy that your son can't have a meeting and bring whoever he likes into it, for support.
I can't think of another scenario where that would happen

Many workplaces wouldn't. They often refuse anyone but union reps to accompany.

Maybe he thought that because Yr 1 exams don't count towards the final degree level, he didn't appreciate he still had to pass to go into Year 2?

I find it hard to believe that he thought the first round of exams didn't need to be passed - why would the university set exams which didn't need to be passed? But this student just found out that he cannot progress to year 2, indicating that he failed a resit. It would have been made clear to him when he was told to resit that he had to pass!

It's not a workplace though, you don't pay £9000 per year to work normally.

Also if the son permits his mum to attend, then he needs to accept the fact that stuff he wouldn't like bringing up might get raised. That's what you are consenting to when you are waiving your data protection.

It just feels that all the power is one way here . Even if he can't be allowed his parent, he should be allowed or offered a meeting with an advocate, if he feels he wants it.

All those posters who say universities aren't a business or marketing a product - they are marketing an education (they don't guarantee you get it).

All universities have a marketing department and conduct roadshows to try and attract students to their uni's.

I was an international student and British uni's take part in education roadshows abroad and compete with universities from the US, Australia etc to compete for the foreign fees.

There have also been many rumours about how some lecturers / departments have been pressured to either lower entry requirements or ensure some foreign students pass so that the universities can continue to get this injection of cash.

Now that UK parents have to pay fees, I don't see why they shouldn't be treated as paying customers too (not asking for guarantee of a degree but just basic communication with a customer about options etc if student is not performing)

haybot I don't know where you work but I was Head of Awards at a prestigious red brick uni for many years and I can assure you that in research intensive Institutions, the timetable for the academic year inc. the timings of re-sit exams is NOT led by administrative desires but by research imperatives.

The regulations won't be secret. If they're not available online the parent could ask for a copy - that's a very different kettle of fish from asking for information relating to a specific student. (Or she could simply ask her ds, who will have access to the online version even if he has lost the paper copy he will most likely have been given.)

University's need to accept there is a change and that parents will get involved. I've been recently involved in a case of malpractice by a university who failed a student in a placement. I was asked to look into the case independently by parents as they felt malpractice had occurred. It had in my opinion and the university did not like the challenge that I provided. They need to gear up for this and get their ducks in a row and stop whinging. If somebody is investing thousands of pounds they want the very best service and to make sure the decision is the right one.

UK parents by and large don't pay fees.

I'm still not sure what the purpose of the meeting would be at this stage? The OP's son has failed this module and also failed the resit. It seems that the son has had the options open to him clearly laid out by the Uni and now it is up to him and OP to discuss themselves which one they prefer to select.

What would the meeting achieve?

There have also been many rumours about how some lecturers / departments have been pressured to either lower entry requirements or ensure some foreign students pass so that the universities can continue to get this injection of cash.

Your university course doesn't seem to have taught you much in the way of critical thinking. Exams scripts are anonymous and markers against a criteria. You will have no idea whose script you are marking. In addition all assessed work is subject to both internal and external moderation.

Now that UK parents have to pay fees, I don't see why they shouldn't be treated as paying customers too

That is what is known as argument from a false premise.

Even if he can't be allowed his parent, he should be allowed or offered a meeting with an advocate, if he feels he wants it.

But he would be - this is standard practice. I don't believe that the OP is being told the whole story.

I'm amazed that some parents think they have the right to speak directly to the university regarding their adult child. This would have been unheard of in the eighties when I was at university.

The fact that fees are now payable is not relevant as students have the responsibility for paying these, rather than their parents. Some parents may decide to give the child the money so that they don't have to take out a loan to pay the fees but that is between the adult child and parents and not the universities concern.