...to insiat that certain parents accompany their badly behaved children at my sons party

[caroloro]

So. Last year my son had a whole class party (film and popcorn in a village hall) and two boys in particular caused utter mayhem. I had to move them to a different part of the hall in the end. Now, if I invite them this year, I want to make it clear that I want a parent with them. I can't ignore 20 kids to deal with the behaviour of two. Does this seem unreasonable? Also, how would I put it? Due to the behaviour of your son at my sons party last year, if he's coming this year, I need you or another adult there to take responsibility for managing him? Seems a bit rude! These boys rarely get invited anywhere, bless them, so I don't want to exclude them, but honestly, they're veryvery difficult!

This is when you start the 3 friends invited to the cinema type parties. The boy you feel sorry for will not come to the party as his parents dont care enough to come with him. The other one...who knows.

But whole class parties are not done out of KS1

Just don't invite them If you are going Karting they will ruin it for everyone and could get you all thrown out.

If your DS doesn't want them there, then they shouldn't be there. It's his party and it doesn't want it ruined.

You've ben kind for 2 years and it hasn't been appreciated.

It is a small class anyway, so will have Barr these two boys, about 9 in the party. Why should op suck it up, and go to the trouble or expense of getting help or help to seek rein on two badly behaved kids. Even if they are hauled off the kart track, what happens to them then! Op has to supervise them in the Karting centre, judging by their behaviour it could be at the detriment of her, if the centre refuse to host her again because of them! It will possibly ruin it for the other kids. karting is not cheap, op ds shoukd have the party he wants without these kids ruining it. At 10 they are old enough!

I agree, op has been kind for the past 2 years, but they have continued to behave poorly.

Of course it's up to you op what you want to do, you don't have to.

I agree, because of these boys behaviour they could be thrown out of the centre and party ruined, not everyone is as kind as the op.

I don't think you will be able to rely on their parents at this party.

But not inviting them is also tricky. It may be that once word gets out that you didn't invite them this year, others will follow suit. The mum that you know will blame you, not her son's behaviour.

If your son really wants them there, I think you be better off finding your own extra helpers, rather than asking the parents. Perhaps that's the way round it - rope in one or two adults whose job is to spot-mark these two boys and step in should their behaviour get worse. It's up to you whether you tell the two boys on arrival about this plan or not - if they know they are being watched, they might be better behaved?

I'd invite the parents, and tell them why.
When my brother was growing up one child in his year was never invited to anything (as he was a bullying sod - not SN just no boundaries at home). My mother sat his parents down and said she'd let him come to my brother's whole class party but only if they came to keep him in check and prevent bullying. The kid was so pleased at being invited he stopped bullying the other kids who went, and he and my brother went from pretty much enemies to good friends.
It sucks for a kid to be left out, and the stigma of having a parent attend might be less than being left out altogether.

Gosh this is a tough one. And good for you to not want to leave them out entirely.

With the child whose mum you do know, or at least see about, I would have a chat with her and say that because of the nature of this party and the fact that last year the boys would not accept her authority when asked what to do (not a surprise, you already talked to her) you will need to ask her or her partner to attend and supervise their child if they come this year for safety reasons. Explain that you really want her son there but if there is any misbehaving the entire group will be asked to leave.

With the other child - you need to find a way to see the mum. Do you know where he lives or have an idea of where he lives? I have done this with a mum who was also incapable - my son really desperately wanted his friend at the party! I felt like a real stalker but actually it worked out really well and beautiful behaviour from said boy forever after once he knew I knew where he lived!

(I only knew roughly the street where they lived so went down there one afternoon in summer and sure enough he was outside playing football. Said I wanted to invite him to the party (had my done with me!) and he took me to his front door).

Also yes I think it is fine for you to put a note in there for the parents. Explain that because of the nature of this party and for am safety reasons their child must be accompanied by a parent.

However.

If you don't talk to the parents beforehand you need to have a plan in place for what you will do if one or both of the lads turns up sans parents.

Don't invite them

They're reaching the age of criminal responsibility aren't they? If they started pouring drinks over people and smashing out the ceiling tiles, someone's going to end up calling the police, and that's going to be a grim end to the annual "What shit are those two gonna pull this year?" charade.

I agree a verbal chat with the mums might work - NynaevesSister's ideas are good. I'd hope the parents would be aware enough to say "Oh, thanks for the invite, he can be a handful so of course we will..." but, well... I just hope they would.

It's not mean to not invite them. They have consistently demonstrated that they cannot behave at parties. Tough shit, they've had their chance, no more and they don't come anymore.

We had a small party at home last year. DS got to pick a few friends, then added a few more. He wanted to add another and I said no. He is like a whirlwind and a bit of a pain. He would have changed the whole dynamic as the others tend to feed off him and he isn't particularly nice, a lot of time the rest of the boys don't get on with him. The parents seem to encourage it and think it's great. I don't feel bad about not inviting him at all.

I am so pleased you said that EllieBoolou27 , I really wish people would stop assuming bad behavior = SN.

I think you are making this harder for yourself than it needs to be - just don't invite them or do a smaller party if say half or two thirds of the class

They are of an age where they should be able to behave themselves and the trouble they seem to cause is not minor or harmless

At 10 I don't think kids expect full class parties and I don't see the reason for doing one in the context of these kids potentially ruining it for the others. If they had parents who were able to control them they would not behave as they do so inviting their parents is not a solution.

I really wish people would stop assuming bad behavior = SN

I get what you are saying but I am not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing thing. If my child is behaving 'badly' by some subjective standard, ie behaving atypically but with what are typically autistic behaviours, I would rather people give him the benefit of the doubt rather than think he is just being a brat or that we are shit parents.

A lot of his young peers with ASD struggle with emotional regulation. One child for example has been known to run across room threatening to 'kill' other children. By any standards that appears to unknowing bystanders eye as 'bad' behaviour but this child simply cannot yet manage his anger because of his ASD. I can assure you his mother prefers when people realise his behaviour is down to his condition and not him just being naughty.

It is very difficult to tell NT from non NT children so I personally prefer to not just think a child is a brat and that there may possibly be some reason (maybe SN, maybe home life) why a child is behaving in a manner that is completely atypical.

Or steve they are simply badly behaved or did not have the right parental input early on. Not all kids who are badly behaved have sn, than we're going down a slippery slope. Op knows the kids and has not mentioned that they have sn, so we will assume these boys are NT kids who have not had the right parental input, and are badly behaved, becAuse they are! It is up to op what she decides to do, but I would have no qualms about not inviting them, as previously they displayed bad behaviour at 2 of op pRties, and laughed in op face when she tried to discipline them!

Only on mumsnet it seems you have to invite kids who behave like the boys in the op. I am sure that if op was aware they had sn, she would try her best to accommodate them. They have ruined 2 of her parties and has said they still behave the same, she has been very kind, and sounds like a very nice person.

Bad behaviour doesn't mean there is sn but sn can cause 'bad behaviour' in some cases.

Yes even though my ASD dd 9 displays differently, my friends ds 9 and has ASD and PDA behaves similar to how you described steve, but the behaviour of those boys at op party, throwing food, playing football with drinks, taking cushions from under people, laughing in op face when trying to discipline them, sounds really the parents were not on top of them from an early age. If we assume all kids who behave badly have SN, we are going down a very slippery slope, and are doing those who do have SN a disservice, and minimising their needs. It is perpetuating the sterotype that "children with SN are badly behaved", which is what we do not want, as it minimises their needs.

Op is a health professional, and knows this family, and the boys do not have sn, really some kids behave poorly as a result of their environment or upbringing. You can ask the parents op, but I don't think you will get much of a result, mabey invite 7/8 kids to the karting, but I would not be inviting them, and I am saying this as a parent with a dd with ASd, and a ds 4 with additional needs.

I think you should just talk honestly with the parents. You will risk them not coming but would that be such a loss? You can easily say it pleasantly, use words like excitable and I found it hard to manage but don't want to leave anyone out rather than your DS is naughty. It's hardly going to be a surprise to the parents from the sounds of it. My DS is over excitable and both misbehaves and finds it hard to control himself in party situation. I would be thrilled if another parent invited my DS with me included rather than excluding him. Honestly.

I think talking to the parents could massively backfire. Four sounds like a decent caring parent who would welcome this approach but that cannot be assumed here - particularly with behaviour like the op describes over a long period of time. The op may well get a mouthful of abuse for her trouble.

Kerala I think that will happen, but I guess at least op will know now. And invite all but those two individuals.

"DS would love Johnny to come to his party, but I struggled keeping Johnny focused last year. Are you okay to come with him - we're going go-karting so I think he'll need careful supervision! Many thanks, Carololo"