to ask would you send your eldest Dc to a grammar school?

[var12]

Hypothetical question... if there were grammar schools in your area and your DC1 was offered a place, would you accept it?

bertrand that's what I'd always thought! But it didn't pan out like that for us! It was almost irrelevant whether DD2 got D, E or F. There is a crunch point at the CD border I know. I can only go on my experiences, which unfortunately have not been positive in the comp sector.

Bertrand in what sense are comprehensive schools not mixed abilities?

(especially as that wouldn't have changed the fact that she was sharing a home and parents with a more capable learner!)

Var- would you really want primary schools spending time coaching for a narrow set of exams that most of the children are going to fail?

And surely, "advantaged" children would still get outside coaching, human nature being what it is, so the pass mark will just be pushed up.

"Fine grading does matter. Otherwise the Olympic team would not believe small gains matter!"

Erroneous comparison, the Olympic team can win on 0.01 of a second, a kid who gets an A gets an A and no one ever looks to see if they got 98% or 94%, no offers for university, no job awarding decisions are based on the very fine grading, just over all.

"I have come to the conclusion that a grammar system is better than the comp /only for the wealthy private schools system and if there were adequate coverage of grammar schools less parents would feel the need to buy their way out of the state system."

Based on your own experience! Anecdote is not the plural of data.

I'm fairly sure the private schools weren't struggling to fill their places when we had an entirely selective system...

How does fine grading matter?

Unfortunately comprehensive and mixed ability even for some academic subjects at GCSE are one and the same here as its a very small school. Which is why I think larger schools would be more effective comps?

Actually multi private schools did struggle to fill places when grammar schools were more widespread. It was said that the biggest threat to the private system was a grammar school.

Interesting; do you have a source for that, Head?

I just asked my ds 1. He is keen on the idea of a grammar school. This is because he has aspergers and finds school stressful particularly due to poorly behaved children in his classes. He is in the top sets and considered gifted in history but he also needs considerable emotional and social support at school.

There are no grammar schools in our area so this is not an option even if I would consider it. Which I wouldn't. Ds is 12 and has an understandable misconception about children in grammar schools.

smallfox people's experiences matter. They don't make hard data, but qualitative data, which can help understand what people value.

I grew up utterly believing 100% in comprehensive education. I'm now, as a result of poor experiences, not really convinced. I thought you might be interested in why - as you obviously feel that is the best system.

No I don't have a link for that multi, unfortunately, it was something I read and it stuck in my mind. Like some of you I wanted a more equal society , and was not keen on private schools as I felt they were diversive.

Ah. It would help, really, if I knew where you read it. I've read some right codswallop about grammars over the past week or so!

I think many things can make a persons experiences of education be less than desirable. I think that saying its because they went to the comp and not to a grammar might miss out a whole raft of other reasons that could determine someone's educational experience.

Also, this utopian view of grammars as places of no bullying, just high achieving, nice kids, with no bad behaviour is utterly incorrect.

Essentially many people see it as a panacea for the issues they are having, which it wouldn't be. Var's very able DS would still be having to do the same work as the rest of the class as there would still be kids with less ability than him in it, others kids would still be socially awkward or not fit in.

I don't think either of my children have ever had a teacher who'd be happy for them to sit in class doing something different from the work she is setting at that moment

Hmm. I wonder if it's worth opening a conversation about that? Because our experience has been precisely the reverse.

My ds often does work that is related to but different from the work being done by his classmates.

Bertrand it is quite obvious it was a 'cock up' why your DS ended up in a school with only 5% high achievers !

Your DS should be picked up by a chauffeur driven to the grammar at the start of the day for all his subjects and similarly dropped back off at the end of the day.

However, that would mean a teacher will have to wait for him to come back , because the grammar finishes 30 minutes later !

notanetter - I have on 2 occasions:-

1. with the HT of the primary school when the class teacher in September of year 4 took me aside and told me DS2 was so far ahead that she wouldn't be teaching him at all that year.
2. with the head of maths at secondary last September when year end targets were set and DS1 was given 8A, which was the level he'd reached 6 months previously.

In both cases, the answer boiled down to "no" with no room for negotiation e.g. no extra work, Ds could do any class work first, I'd pay for any additional materials.

Neither actually said no, the primary HT said I could do it myself out of school and the dept head said that DS could be an inspiration to others (which he must surely know is not how 13 year olds react to someone who can easily do the work they are struggling with).

I appreciate the suggestions, but really I have scoured the internet for suggestions over years and I've wracked my brains. I really think i have tried everything, but the only thing that was useful was the advice I got about how to deal with perfectionism.

"with the HT of the primary school when the class teacher in September of year 4 took me aside and told me DS2 was so far ahead that she wouldn't be teaching him at all that year."

Yeah right.

So the HT of a primary school openly admitted to you at the start of the year that your son wouldn't be getting any maths provision?

Oh, sandy- stop talking such utter bollocks. You do your case no good at all.

Or at least, try to talk remotely relevant bollocks.

with the HT of the primary school when the class teacher in September of year 4 took me aside and told me DS2 was so far ahead that she wouldn't be teaching him at all that year

That's plainly ridiculous. And not, in my experience, remotely typical. Most teachers, believe it or not, love teaching - and love helping children progress more than they enjoy targets and tests. It looks like you have been phenomenally unlucky... but to damn the entire comprehensive system as a consequence is unfair. If we're talking anecdotes, then as I say, my experience has been the complete opposite of yours (my boys were assessed as 8A at the end of Y6).

Var- what do Ll the other children who are at the same level as your son do?