to ask would you send your eldest Dc to a grammar school?

[var12]

Hypothetical question... if there were grammar schools in your area and your DC1 was offered a place, would you accept it?

If there are several examples is still doesn't trump the data does it els?

I haven't read the studies or interrogated their scientific credibility so I can't really comment. I guess I just have the examples I know about to inform me. And now I've had wine so really have nothing useful to say

Nah, we didn't do Latin, too nouveau... we did Sanskrit (yes, honestly)

Look up survivor bias and you'll understand why it works for the grammar school anecdotes.

And gosh, all these private schools teaching neither critical thinking nor Latin well, hardly pushing the most able.

I have to admit I gave up Latin rather early on in favour of more useful subjects (science)

I can't wait to i can ask this question on MUMSNET

'Where were you , when the lights went out on Comprehensive Schools'

Well I know what survivor bias is but I can't see what it has to do with commenting on a pros and cons of grammar school system. Unless you mean that people who went to comprehensives are incapable of contributing to this thread??

"Survivor bias, or survival bias, is the logical error of concentrating on the people or things that "survived" some process and inadvertently overlooking those that did not because of their lack of visibility"

So basically saying "well grammar schools worked for me" is a case of survivor bias because it ignores the fact that they didn't, and don't for the vast majority.

Its entirely accurate to critique the anecdotal examples given on here thus.

So, unsurprisingly, many of the people championing grammar schools on this thread have admitted proudly that they only care about their own children and couldn't care less about anyone else's.

And that is exactly why grammar schools are wrong.

'Nil Satis nisi optimum' for grammar school pupils !

Or for the children of some posters on this thread, at the expense of others, but just go look at the cries of "unfair" when the rules don't work in your favour.

"So, unsurprisingly, many of the people championing grammar schools on this thread have admitted proudly that they only care about their own children and couldn't care less about anyone else's.

And that is exactly why grammar schools are wrong"

Ellen do you care about other people's children as much as your own?

I don't think anyone has said they "couldn't care less" about anyone else's children or "proudly" admitted that they only care about their own children?

Really? That's not how you'd read all these posts? Meh.

My point is quite simple: I find it offensive when people sacrifice my children in order to meet their own need to virtue-signal.

'Familia Omnia Est'

 My year '13' DD1 Deputy head girl  at her  Grammar gave me that one !

Who is virtue signalling? All the evidence proves the grammar schools are not a catalyst for social mobility, and therefore society remains more unequal, and often with the less deserving profiting from that.

Who has said that they would "sacrifice" your children? Your merely attempting to justify and unjust status quo because it acts in your favour.

Good attempt at an appeal to emotion though, flawed, flawed argument.

In contrast sandy, ad altiora tendo.

It's "you're" smallfox

Oh ouch, the ill educated one calls out one spelling on MN despite her fancy education not preparing her for critical thinking or understanding latin.

Highlighting typos isn't critique.

And who are the "less deserving" who are profiting? The clever? Those with more affluent parents?

My children go to a Comprehensive. They are unchallenged at the top of the top set. Its been this way since year 2. The school know but don't care. I can't see the privilege there.
However you would keep them there because it makes you feel good to know that they are not getting any advantage that can be denied to them, that other children can't access

"Oh ouch, the ill educated one calls out one spelling on MN despite her fancy education not preparing her for critical thinking or understanding latin.

Highlighting typos isn't critique"

I'm very, very far from ill educated smallfox. I didn't study Latin beyond 14 I grant you. I would not have achieved my scientific PhD from a world class university or my subsequent career without critical thinking though!!

I do admit the grammar correction was a bit childish though - just couldn't resist sorry

Then why do your arguments display so many flaws? Oh my PHD is from a world class university too btw.

In Latin?

Anyway I have no wish to argue. I'm off to bed. I think we all agree people from every type of school can be well educated. This was about sacrificing ones own children's advantage for the benefit of others or society as a whole, which I genuinely do not believe anyone is prepared to do. But perhaps there are those altruistic people out there!

Economics.