to not help her?

[DorothyL]

Last year a colleague covered some hours at work for me (just a couple) so I could see my son's assembly at school. She has now asked me to return the favour but I have said no because it would mean I couldn't pick ds up from school and would have to ask dh to take time off to collect ds. Ds had sn which is why I can't just ask a friend to collect him. My colleague seems a bit put out and I have apologised, but I was hoping she'd be more understanding? I would happily help if I could do it without it affecting ds.

Munster - 10x as big

Colleague a moves her paperwork into another room for 1 lesson supervising 4 6th formers

Colleague b works on an afternoon off, her husband takes a half day holiday and her son is significantly distressed by the change in routine.

No you're right. It's about 100x as big. It's not about whether the assembly or the holiday is more important, it's about how much disruption it's causing.

The tone of this probably stems from your original question as this makes that you had a choice and why you should not have to repay a favour. If it had been worded why you cannot help a colleague it may have followed a different path. I do not think all people understand the impact when a routine is broken. I have scars from when a paediatrician did not give DS2 his usually lollypop, he did not even eat the bloody things but his routine was broken. If Friday is mum day to your DC and can imagine the impact of you not being there.

Bluebolt I think I was just misguided in not spelling it out more clearly what it would mean for ds

I do feel encouraged by those who see where I'm coming from

Sadly a bit early for

I don't know if anybody has already said this- but surely you should have gone to SLT and requested to be able to go to DSs assembly, then cover would have been arranged for you. Or they would have said no and you would have had to accept that you couldn't go.

Do SLT know you are swapping lessons between yourselves? It doesn't sound like a good way to go to me.

YABU, just because she was in school doesn't mean she didn't have something else to do. You're minimising the fact you inconvenienced her.

You clearly don't want to accept anything other than people telling you exactly what you want to hear OP. It's another self validation thread, so no point in asking AIBU...

But anyway.... All you need to do is explain that you finish early on Fridays and simply cannot carry out this favour. End of.

But try to accept that what she did for you was actually quite a big favour too. Don't just dismiss it which is what you seem to be trying to do. (Reducing it from 2 hours to 'just an hour', 'just sitting at a computer'....
As I said, her favour meant you could go to see your ds assembly (which presumably is quite a big deal for you and him) without you having to officially record it as time off for personal reasons. All schools have a policy about this- they either wouldn't allow it for an assembly, or they would allow it unpaid, or they even might allow it as paid time but would have a limit on how many occasions you could take over the year. Her act of doing you a favour allowed you bypass all of this, because you didn't have to actually organise cover formally and have it recorded as time off. As a teacher I know how schools work and how bloody difficult it is to take time off, so just appreciate that your colleagues desire to get away early as a one off is just as important to her as your sons assembly was.

Anyway, I have a solution you could help her organise a 3 way favour? - ie suggest she asks another colleague who has non contact time on fri afternoons to cover her class, and then you repay thatcolleague?

Total off topic, does your DS go to special school? I never understand why they have parents in the school. Children distressed because parent is not there, that the parent is there, that the wrong parent is there, the parent leaves. It always seems like carnage. But also why missing a child's assembly to missing a special needs child's assembly sometimes is not comparable.

No he is at mainstream school.

SisterV I'm sure SLT would rather that than pay ( unlikely ) for supply £75 plus!

To me this has nothing to do with whether your child had SN. She is asking you to stay in school when you are not contracted to be in school, because you are a part time worker. Obviously you will have commitments during this time off. I work 3 days a week and if there are meetings etc happening on the days I am not contracted to work, I apologise and explain that Thursday is not a working day for me (or whatever). I think in other circumstances Mumsnet would be saying 'no is a complete sentence' as they often do (which I also don't agree with). The fact is you are not ever available Friday afternoons as you have other commitments. I think maybe you have over thought this. If I had had an email asking me to work on one of my non working days, except in exceptional circumstances (eg large multiagency meeting and this is the only date everyone else can do for months), I would apologise and say I am not in work that day and have other commitments. Re the favour, acknowledge you are aware you owe her one. My email would be along the lines of ' Sarah, I'm really sorry, especially since I am aware I owe you one, but Friday afternoons are impossible for me; I'm not in work and have commitments that I can't change. I am really sorry not to be able to help you out this time. I hope you get something sorted, good luck!'
Don't minimise what she did, don't agonise over letting her down. You certainly owe her a work time favour. You don't owe her your unpaid non working time.

Just send her another text saying you've been feeling guilty and you're really sorry you coulnt help. You'd love to another time but ds's problems make it impossible on a Friday afternoon.

Ditsy- I doubt they'd pay for supply which is really expensive. In many schools, a request for time off for an assembly would be met with:
A) No
B) time off unpaid, someone from SLT to cover
C) time off paid, SLT to cover but there is a strict limit on number of occasions which can be taken

In the cases of B) and C) it's recorded as an absence for personal reasons.

Op bypassed all of this by asking her colleague to do a favour- which is worth quite a lot.

I think the fact that she enabled you to take time off without losing pay is very relevant, although you refuse to acknowledge it. I would look on it as that you owe the school this time, rather than her personally.

Quite a bit of new information has come out since the original post which does change things. And if you can't do it you can't do it. Your tone throughout though op which I do get maybe a defence thing has seemed to minimise her and her helping you out.

I think she knows that the head wouldn't be favourable to the request even if it was unpaid.

That is the problem. (Hers not yours!!) She's put you in a difficult situation OP.

When you asked for her help, she could have said yes or no.

If she had said no, there would have been no guilt on her part because:
a) You going out of school wasn't essential
b) she didn't owe you anything
If she said yes, it wouldn't cost her anything:
a) She's in work anyway
b) She would have been teaching anyway had Yr 11 been in
c) it's a class of 4 6th formers
d( she can continue with her work as she would if she were on an empty room.

However, you are in a situation where you feel like you don't have the same right decide whether to say yes or no.

If you say no you have a whole heap of guilt.
a) The start to her weekend will be ruined if she gets a late start
b) She is relying on you because the HT is unlikely to let her have LOA
c) You owe her. 😡

If you say yes to her request it puts you out & you have a whole load of guilt too:
a) You have to make other arrangements to pick up SN child which willbe difficult
b) You would have ask your DH to take unpaid leave to step in whilst...
c) ...you work extra hours for free.

Not fair of her.

I want to now what is this gained time fellow teachers are talking about? In June we start a new timetable and have the new Year 7s [yr 6] up for a week so we haven`t had gained time for 3 years.

I think it is about give and take. What time do you pick your SN son up on Fridays usually? You may need help further down the line i.e. Sports Day etc, so if you could do the favour, I think it may help when you need it. I have always offered to help a colleague out, as I have gone away for a weekend and have left an hour early to beat traffic and someone has had my class. It is harder when we teach the same time, but gie and take goes a long way.

However, if it causes more problems, speak to her face to face. I have a disabled son, who is 30 and although, he is as independent as one can be when physically disabled and has learning disabilities, there are times when I needed to be with him - like his PiP assessment earlier this year. Colleagues covered me so this could happen. So try not to burn bridges.

Hope this is sorted amicably.

Next time you see her all you can say (as you've already emailed) is something along the lines of "So sorry I'm not able to help you this time with me not ever being able to work Friday afternoons, hopefully there'll be another time when I can"

I do more ferrying of my daughter around than her friends parents because they have a few much younger children - I remember being that parent, the disruption of carting them all out and about and so on. I'm always mindful that what is easy for me isn't for others etc.

Hope you work things out ok with your colleague

OP - are you going to take up my suggested solution?

I'm sure SLT would rather that than pay ( unlikely ) for supply £75 plus!

As far as I know most secondary schools have internal 'cover supervisors'- a one off single lesson would not have been covered by supply.

TBH I doubt SLT would rather staff were swapping lessons under the radar. If the school got into a culture of that being OK the kids could end up losing quite a bit of specialist teaching time in the scheme of things. Yes- OP is just one teacher and it's just one lesson- but what if ALL the teachers are doing this a few times a year?

I want to now what is this gained time fellow teachers are talking about?
Around 4/5 weeks at the year when Year 11/13 are doing or have finished their exams.
I have colleagues who teach only Years 10-13 so, at the end of the year half their timetable is free.

Not all schools start GCSE courses in July at the end of Year 9 or have Year 6 in for a week!
Everything new starts in September for us.

MrsDeVere
I did use the words sometimes, it's my experience of distressed caused. my DS2 has self harmed and hurt others for him not seeing me in a crowded room surrounded by other parents, for him people belong in certain places, he would be distressed if his teacher came to his home. His school now only invite parents at the end of the day, and move children to other classrooms whose parents cannot attend. This is not comparable with my other DC. I would and have been deverstated missing any of my DCs events but for DS2 the overloading of emotion is just to much. Hope I explained better.

Munster it is a good idea, will look if ir can be done

I don't know why you feel encouraged to be unreasonable because a few are agreeing with you
You clearly are not going to help her out so you need to say sorry and explain why, you need to tell her you realise you shouldn't of asked for a favour as you now realise there was no way you could reciprocate.
But do be prepared for the fact that nobody is likely to do you a favour again (especially as you cannot reciprocate) and that for a while your college and some of the other you work with will be snarky with you.