Where is London?

[namechangenumber45]

This is not intended to be a "London bashing thread" so please take question (from northerner) in spirit intended - one of curiosity.

I have been watching the news and an awful update on situation in Penge where a young boy and woman killed. I've never heard of this suburb and couldn't place it on a map - but on looking it seems to be a bit further from what I'd class as "London".

So my AIBU to ask where London starts and finishes?

Have the boundaries expanded? Are there some areas that would be SouthEast a few years ago but are now London?

depens now

some broughs have been made london ones even thoguh theyre in essex (romford) and bromley (kent)

id say about the postcodes aswell for a true london address

It's always a bit strange when you go out into (comparatively) rural Kent and there are great big London red buses swaying along the tree-lined lanes.

Bromley, Kingston, Richmond etc are London boroughs but don't have traditional London postcodes.

Not so. Half of Richmond has the SW postcodes. Mortlake, Sheen, Barnes are all in the Richmond Borough and have SW postcodes.

Richmond spills into Surrey and the other half of the Borough has TW postcodes.

Much of the London Borough of Barnet has a London postcode - Whetstone, Finchley, Mill Hill etc. it's just High/East/New Barnet that has EN postcodes.

Are there people who are in a London Borough that do not have a London postcode?

Ilford. It's in the London Borough of Redbridge, has an IG postcode and is and always will be in Essex. There are others.

Penge is pronounced pen-ge (nge like in binge)

Blancmange is bler- monj

queenliz please tell me which part of Richmond is in Surrey? The answer is none since 1965

I'm not sure why postcode would be more accurate than paying your council tax to a London Borough.

Can't you just go by general consensus? People who live in Penge will tell you they live in London. Everyone I knew who lived in Beckenham/Bromley thought they lived in Kent. They can't all be wrong.

(Now trying to remember what postcode you have in Elmers End ....)

Kingston Vale also has a SW15 postcode

From my understanding, when you look at the underground and notice where the underground train comes out of the ground. That would have been where London and underground ended. The urban sprawl led to the new stations added on the rail but they all become overground or above ground.

I don't know how true this is.

For anyone who is interested and likes boring legislation this page shows how the London boroughs of today were formed:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Government_Act_1963#Provisions_of_the_Act

Blanche, it would seem that entire swathes of Surrey and Kent have obviously missed the no doubt numerous memos about them now being part of London since 1965. Because everyone - residents, schools, councils, businesses, hospitals, the lot - still use Kent/Surrey on their addresses.

Blanche there's a difference between administratively part of Surrey and geographically part of Surrey.

queenliz please tell me which part of Richmond is in Surrey?

I have friends there. I address their Christmas cards Richmond, Surrey, TW10.

Kew Gardens is in Surrey TW9.

Richmond itself, the town with the station, Quadrant, green, riverside is all Surrey TW10, Kew is TW9.

The parts of the Richmond borough still on the London side are Barnes, Mortlake, Sheen, Roehampton with London SW postcodes.

BlancheBlue
LBOCS2 so when county boundaries change you don't accept them then? Are stuck in a pre 1965 mumsnet? If you live in Croydon and call Surrey county council for anything they will tell you...

I think the distinction is Croydon is in the historical county of Surrey as is Kingston even Streatham, but that is distinct from the current local government districts, where those places are all in London.

I say London is anywhere inside the M25. My sister who lives in Surrey gets very sniffy about this.

Atia, Elmers End is BR2, I think.

Debbriana the tube argument doesn't really work for lots of south London - it never really extended that far into the south east particularly because of difficulties in digging the tunnels (I believe). They still had and have an extensive overground rail system which has been around since the inception of the underground.

LBOCS2 I'm sure you will be getting a demand for many years council tax if you have been sending cheques to SCC rather than London borough of Croydon

Richmond was transferred to greater London in 1965 but its street addresses remain Surrey addresses with a TW10 postcode.

Luna, sorry, that definition is bonkers!

I doubt it Blanche, I lived in SE26 until quite recently. Lewisham borough.

I live in Bromley and I'm fully aware I live in a Londin borough and not Kent, although the pp is correct that people who have live here are often either ignorant to,or,refuse to accept that fact. Deciding to randomly put Kent in your address doesn't make it so.

Richmond is either all in Surrey (the historical county), or all in London (the London borough), it doesn't spill over anywhere well maybe into Middlesex depending on the river...

Postcodes are not a distinction between counties, if it was TW would mostly be in Middlesex.

queenliz they are wrong - go on the royal mail postcode finder if you don't believe me and enter an address in central Richmond - official address for somewhere on the quadrant is for example:

1 The Quadrant
RICHMOND
TW9 1BP