Where is London?

[namechangenumber45]

This is not intended to be a "London bashing thread" so please take question (from northerner) in spirit intended - one of curiosity.

I have been watching the news and an awful update on situation in Penge where a young boy and woman killed. I've never heard of this suburb and couldn't place it on a map - but on looking it seems to be a bit further from what I'd class as "London".

So my AIBU to ask where London starts and finishes?

Have the boundaries expanded? Are there some areas that would be SouthEast a few years ago but are now London?

Zone 1 is a lot bigger than the West End.

It was horrible, I go along that road all the time. Always seems sort of peaceful, local, relaxed

London is of course the area covered by the boroughs of the Greater London Authority. AFAIK the boundaries haven't changed for many years.

The fact that a bus or a train line might stray over the border doesn't change the boundary.

The postcode doesn't tell you, because postcodes are devised for the purpose of delivering letters.

The fact that people might commute from Brighton every morning doesn't push Brighton inside.

Right.

These are the rules for London:

You have to have a London postcode (SE20)
Be in a London Borough (Bromley)
And have an 020 number (0208 in this case).

That's proper London.

Not having a London postcode, but having the other two means you live in Greater London. Usually z5/6. It's not the same. And you still have to be inside the M25 because there might as well be dragons outside it. Greater London is essentially the bit between the north/south circ and the M25.

(I'm a proper Londoner who moved to greater London. I know these things.)

daveminion Sutton and Croydon WERE in Surrey pre 1965 - there are not now - despite what some people in SW London like to say and think as is is "posher"

It has expanded so much. I love that all these places are london because it's a 20 min train into town? If you have to get the train in then it's the suburbs.

Penge is definitely London, it's next door to Lewisham. You're only in Zone 4 there. But as to where you draw the line, there is no one answer.

Penge is in the London borough of Bromley, and although it is suburbia, it is still most definitely part of London.

Blanche, they are still in Surrey. Croydon is a CR postcode and is in the county of Surrey. Doesn't mean it's not a greater London borough though.

I grew up in zone 1 and the only people who refered to zone 1 as 'London' were people who generally lived in zone's 3,4,5 and the borders. To us it was the 'West End'.

Yes this. I'm in Zone 3 and once you get out of the centre of London, it's more like a collection of small towns grouped together, each with it's own character, and people will often say "I'm from Brixton/Leyton/etc." rather than London.

What if I don't have a landline?

I mean, I know that if I did have a landline it would be 020 because TalkTalk told me, but increasing numbers of people don't have one and so some might be borderline and not know.

Is there any chance that I could have a London postcode AND be in a London Borough and yet not have an 020 number?

If there is no possibility of this, then it's a redundant requirement.

here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:London-boroughs.svg

Of course London has expanded. Go back far enough and you'd walk homegrown London across the fields to Chelsea to your impoverished parents' tiny cottage.

Are there people who are in a London Borough that do not have a London postcode?

If there are not then that's redundant too and your only necessary criterion is being in a London Borough.

LBOCS2 so when county boundaries change you don't accept them then? Are stuck in a pre 1965 mumsnet? If you live in Croydon and call Surrey county council for anything they will tell you...

Yes. I live in the London borough of Croydon and my postcode is CR. Beckenham (Bromley) is BR. Penge is Bromley too though and it's SE20.

Looking into the phone line one though. You may be right. We're still an 020 number but I know down the road (which is a CR postcode) has some random long dialling code.

Ah so some of Bromley is London and some is not by your list?

I will tell my Bromley friends... I think at least one of them would prefer to imagine they are in Kent rather than London anyway :o

But having a county council cover or not cover you for something isn't the be all and end all. Norfolk has a county and city council, for example.

Bromley, Kingston, Richmond etc are London boroughs but don't have traditional London postcodes.

Snigger at "random long dialling code". It ends up the same length in the end.

It's London if it has a London postcode

You'd be surprised how many Londoners I met whilst backpacking. Ones from Hertfordshire, Essex and Brighton to name but a few

Limited, agree re Hornchurch example but now confused, did Hornchurch and Ilford get a mayoral vote then?

I've lived in several London boroughs and I've found them all community minded places, with lovely people and some horrible ones of course! I'm sure Penge is the same.

I don't get Zone 1 and West End being automatically linked, if it's Zone 1 it could be the City. My mother can never get that straight in her head though, it's bizarre, to her everything is the City!

My post was mainly tongue in cheek. I am not the arbiter of London (clearly!). But postcode seems as good a line as any to draw, otherwise you get out past actual fields before you're outside 'the London borough of Croydon' (or Bromley) which seems to undermine the premise of a city somewhat.

Croydon was in the Country of Surrey pre 1965 - it has not been since then - not sure why you can't accept that?