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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have been so annoyed by this selfish people and to warn people from being guarantors ?

164 replies

Spice22 · 28/08/2016 02:41

Come back from holiday and catch up on my guilty pleasure ; Can't pay, we'll take it away!

In this episode, the parents signed as guarantors for their daughter's rent. She owes the landlord £3000. High court enforcement has gone to the parents, as the guarantors, to ask for the money. You can tell thy are only just making ends meet. Long story short , the daughter tells the parents "It's your debt, you pay it". ShockShockAngry

Genuinely shocked and angry on their behalf. How is it even ok that the parents are the ones threatened with losing their possessions, before they've threatened the daughter ??

Then another one shows a gentleman having to pay back more than £60k because he was a guarantor !

AIBU to be so shocked ,and annoyed, that such selfish and ungrateful people exist ?

OP posts:
Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 28/08/2016 02:52

Its wrong and it stinks, but. That's how the arse hole of a twatting system works. Which is why. I would never be a guarantor for anyone.

GotItInfamy · 28/08/2016 02:55

Did the people who signed as guarantors not understand the process?

Who did they think was liable for payment if the loaners/renters default?

WannaBeDifferent · 28/08/2016 03:03

I agree GotIt what did they think they were signing for ?

GotItInfamy · 28/08/2016 03:04

Posted too soon.
How is even ok that the parents are the ones threatened with losing their possessions
Because they are the guarantors. They have promised payment in the event their daughter can't (or won't) pay.
Then another one shows a gentlemen having to pay back more than 60k because he was a guarantor!
Yes, because he was a guarantor. He took the legal commitment to pay whatever was due if the original debtor couldn't or wouldn't pay.

Why should a business go without payment for their services?

Original poster
Spice22 · 28/08/2016 03:11

No, I completely understand that the debt has to be paid. Completely. But , I would have thought they would harass the daughter/her partner first and then move on to the parents once they had taken possessions from the daughter (if they were not enough to cover the debt). Hope that made sense ?

And I just can't believe he daughter's attitude. Has lost her family (parents and siblings) over £3,000 and a stinking attitude.

OP posts:
AppleMagic · 28/08/2016 03:15

But the whole point of a guarantor is that the tenant doesn't really have enough money to make claiming against them worthwhile. Legal action is expensive.

GotItInfamy · 28/08/2016 03:18

Yes, the daughter is disgraceful.

But the whole point of a guarantee of payment is to avoid having to spend (probably fruitless) months chasing and harassing a defaulter. Why should they spend time and money on that? Once a business has a guarantor for their services they will go straight to them. People who sign guarantees should be very, very clear on the legal commitment they have made, and be very, very careful about who they sign as guarantors for.

musicposy · 28/08/2016 04:20

DH is a guarantor for DD1's student flat. We were very, very wary about doing it as we really would be in difficulty if we had to pay it for long. However, DD1 could not have gone and done the course without (they don't have any student accommodation as such, it's all private rentals) and so we were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

We do trust DD1; she has integrity and I'm certain she wouldn't put us in the position where we unknowingly had months of arrears to stump up. I can't imagine her telling us it was our debt and she had no intention of paying it. Having said that, we do keep on top of checking she has paid her rent. We've said "the day you don't pay your rent on time is the day you give notice and come and live back at home" and she knows we mean it.

nagynolonger · 28/08/2016 04:45

I agree re student lets. The trouble is when they sign up they sign to pay for the whole term of the lease. Even if they drop out/come home they still have to pay the full rent for the year. Unless of course another student moves in and pays.

IMO landlord (often multi property owners) in student towns make an absolute killing. They rent out poor quality houses to 2nd and 3rd year students. They milk them and take zero risk themselves. Less well off parents risk a hell of a lot if their adult DC go to university away from home.

Fortunately our DC have all been good tenants and careful with money while away at university. We made sure they were fully aware of what WE were signing up to. They knew what not paying rent in time would mean to us and their younger siblings.

Bogeyface · 28/08/2016 04:58

I always think this when I see those ads for loans that need a guarantor. All it does is shift the responsibility from the bad risk to someone who they (the lender and the borrower) know will pay up. I would love to see stats about who ends up paying back these loans.

I would never be a guarantor.

CuttedUpPear · 28/08/2016 06:21

Is this a tv programme?
I think you are missing the point OP.
Some crappy behaviour is a prerequisite of these programmes in order for them to get their viewing figures.

Would you be bothered to watch a programme where everyone pays on time and no one gets into financial difficulties?

somekindofmother · 28/08/2016 06:57

would never be a guarantor for this reason.

I am a landlord and would never accept tenants that require one either. imo they are less likely to look after the place or to pay on time and if they don't you have to go after someone who's only fault was being kind enough to support them to get a place to live when they couldn't do it by themselves. and I would feel seriously crappy doing that.

cexuwaleozbu · 28/08/2016 07:15

There have been lots of mn threads about this over the years - the consensus being that it is very very risky to be a guarantor and you should only ever do it if you can comfortably afford to make a gift of the whole amount and would be willing to do so.

I think that the structure of guarantor contracts is seriously flawed because it is too easy fir the debtor to choose to ignore their debt with no consequences to themselves. As soon as contracts are signed the debtor has no actual responsibility and can choose to never make a single repayment. Lenders and debt collectors have no responsibility to pursue the actual debtor and they go straight to the guarantor.

A better system would be a requirement that lenders/debt collectors must first take every possible step to recover the money from the debtor before the guarantor status can be activated, and that if the guarantor status is activated then this should create an enforceable debt from the borrower to the guarantor which is not erased by bankruptcy so that the guarantor can reclaim the money owed at any time in the future once the debtor has funds and posessions that can be claimed.

marcopront · 28/08/2016 07:26

Surely the point is the guarantor can chase the original person. The problem is the first example you quoted is not the system but the daughter. Her parents need to sort it out with her.

My step mum was a guarantor for me when I moved back to the UK from overseas and needed to rent a flat. I always paid my rent on time and my Dad and Step Mum (she owned the house) never questioned me about it.

thepurplehen · 28/08/2016 07:29

I have also heard through a colleague that landlords of student accommodation, rarely chase and put pressure on the tenant, preferring to go straight to the guarantor (where they know the money is).

It teaches the tenant nothing about responsibility.

Ultimately the landlord just wants his/her money and isn't in business to teach right from wrong.

myusernamewastaken · 28/08/2016 07:32

I was asked to guarantor my uni student ds....on enquiring further with the letting agency i found that the guarantor is responsible for all the people in the house not just your own child....needless to say i refused and paid his last 3 months rent instead to get out of it....

doleritedinosaur · 28/08/2016 07:51

We found out during a tenancy that each guarantor is responsible for all rent as we had a housemate who decided to not pay rent for 2 months.

They didn't tell us so letters were sent to our parents as we were at uni & to say we were livid was an understatement.

It did all get sorted but estate agents need to highlight this, not that they won't.

My father never could have afforded my rent & I made sure I went to uni being able to afford it.

2kids2dogsnosense · 28/08/2016 07:54

ALL of the people in the house????!!!!

Hell's Bells username - that is horrendous! I would never have even dreamed that in my wildest nightmares - so someone else's kids can trash the place and default on the rent, and you could lose your home and savings because of it?

That is SO WRONG!

prh47bridge · 28/08/2016 08:03

A better system would be a requirement that lenders/debt collectors must first take every possible step to recover the money from the debtor before the guarantor status can be activated

Why force the lender/landlord/whoever to waste money pursuing someone who cannot pay? The only reason there is a guarantor in the first place is that they know it wouldn't be worth taking action against the borrower. The net result if we went down this route is that guarantors would have to pay more as they would end up paying the lender's legal costs for the action they took against the borrower plus the costs of any failed recovery efforts (bailiffs, etc.).

Sugarlightly · 28/08/2016 08:07

I also watched this last night and I think one of them said on the show "if you can't afford it, you go without".

The parents can recover their costs by suing their daughter, but it's unlikely they will do that.

Too many people don't understand what a "guarantor" is. It means if the first person doesn't pay, you pay!

cexuwaleozbu · 28/08/2016 08:08

If they literally "cannot pay" then they shouldn't be signing any debt agreement in the first place - rather than being the debtor with a guarantor the whole contract should be with the person who will actually be paying.

The current setup allows people who can pay and do have income and assets to choose to spend their money on partying and holidays leaving their guarantor to worry about the debts.

myusernamewastaken · 28/08/2016 08:08

Yes 2kids...its shocking isn't it....i suspected this was the case as i'd read up on moneysavingexpert knowing that ds would need a private rent for his 2nd year....i rang the letting agency (a reputable one in Canterbury) and told her i would happily guarantor my own child but she said it doesnt work like that....i would be guarantoring the other 4 boys too.....if one left early the landlord could go after any of us parents to cover his rent.....for the record the other 4 parents signed up as guarantors....i paid £1500 to not be one....thats my sons last 3 months rent and my liability over....

Sugarlightly · 28/08/2016 08:09

I also don't think you should be able to be a guarantor unless you earn significantly more than the money being owed, and are able to prove that you have the monthly rent as disposable income

myusernamewastaken · 28/08/2016 08:18

I dont have that money spare each month so in the worst case scenario i would lose my house....this is why guarantors have to live in the uk and own there own home.

MouseholeCat · 28/08/2016 08:19

I'm a renter with a guarantor (my Dad). I'm so grateful he did it otherwise we'd have struggled to find anywhere to live within commutable distance of our jobs- rents are very high here, and EAs will ask for one if rent makes up more than a third of household income, or if part of your income is less dependable (e.g. my DH, who is a contractor).

We're great tenants, fab relationship with our landlord, and have always paid rent on time. Rent is about 35% of our income (we're lucky compared to many!), and we can absolutely afford to pay it. Never once has anyone else had to pay for my rent.

The people in the example are twats, and extreme examples at that. Just because we're not rich enough to not need a guarantor doesn't mean we're "less likely to pay" as somekindofmother is suggesting... Hmm