To have been so annoyed by this selfish people and to warn people from being guarantors ?

[Spice22]

Come back from holiday and catch up on my guilty pleasure ; Can't pay, we'll take it away!

In this episode, the parents signed as guarantors for their daughter's rent. She owes the landlord £3000. High court enforcement has gone to the parents, as the guarantors, to ask for the money. You can tell thy are only just making ends meet. Long story short , the daughter tells the parents "It's your debt, you pay it".

Genuinely shocked and angry on their behalf. How is it even ok that the parents are the ones threatened with losing their possessions, before they've threatened the daughter ??

Then another one shows a gentleman having to pay back more than £60k because he was a guarantor !

AIBU to be so shocked ,and annoyed, that such selfish and ungrateful people exist ?

I haven't read the whole thread but at one point in my life my father was the guarantor for my rented flat.

However the LA carried out really stringent credit and financial checks on him before they allowed him to become my guarantor.

Anyway when he was thinking of retiring he went to the LA and told them and asked them what the situation was regarding being a guarantor if he no longer had an annual salary and they ran it through the computer and said that he could no longer be my guarantor.

All they took into account was his annual salary disappearing, not the fact that he owned his own home, had savings and received various pensions.

Luckily enough due to my changing circumstances I was able to buy before it became a problem.

The point I am trying to make is that I do not understand how people are allowed to sign up to be guarantors when they are clearly in no financial position to guarantee anything?

I would have thought they would harass the daughter/her partner first and then move on to the parents once they had taken possessions from the daughter
I can see what you are saying but a lot of the time there is no point in pursuing the tenant as they do not have anything like the amount of possessions necessary to repay the debt.

Usually the guarantors are a much more likely (and probably easy) target.

That just about sums it up. He didn't get the car as none would stand guarantor for him.

Spice22 / Thinkingblonde his mum might have been willing but not able. If his mum was renting her home rather than owning (with or without a mortgage) - then she wouldn't have qualified as a guarantor anyway.

The lenders back-up-plan in case a guarantor doesn't show willing to cover all the debt is to have a charge put on the guarantor's own home, and can even force a sale of that home. If there is someone else's name on the deeds, or if the lender has reason to believe that the amount of equity in that house after repayment of the mortgage still wouldn't cover the accumulated debt after a forced sale, then that person can't be a guarantor.

The key thing to understand here is that, while there may be some fairly standard forms of guarantee that are widely used by letting agents, the concept is essentially a civil law agreement between landlord and guarantor and one guarantee can be entirely different in its terms from another. There is absolutely no substitute for reading the documentation in forensic detail nefore you sign (including the terms of the underlying lease and any other document to which it cross-refers) and taking independent legal advice if necessary. As some have commented here, they can in certain circumstances be negotiable, although usually the landlord holds all the bargaining power so it is a case of "sign as is or you don't get the tenancy".

A PP mentioned someone whose relative had simply no idea that being a guarantor entailed any more than giving a character reference. I am sorry but this person must have signed a document that he either did not read or did not understand and it was entirely his own fault.

Jessie you are right that sometimes you need legal advice to understand a guarantee . Which does in a way make it all the more undesirable that it's the 'norm' for students' parents to be required to guarantee their dc's student tenancies. It doesn't seem right that part of the 'price' of your dc going to university is that you have to enter into a major commitment requiring legal advice! (I realise you can get round it by studying at local university and living at home)
Also, what happens if neither dparent is regarded as an acceptable guarantor (not earning enough, resident overseas etc) - it would be interesting to know if that has ever happened to anyone, and how they got round it.

I couldn't afford to guarentee student DD accomodation but is is not a straightforward relationship (long story) and she is not good with money. If she failed to pay, I couldn't cover the mortgage and support my other 4 DC.

I think it is very wrong that parents are asked to do this. It was very difficult to find accommodation that didn't need a guarentor amd she needed a big deposit. No wonder so many kids from poor backgrounds struggle to go to uni

Why is it wrong for private landlords to ask for guarantors? Students do not have regular or stable income, why should a landlord take a risk of non-payment?

The situation is obviously different for accommodation provided by the University itself. My Mum was a leased property manager for a University for years- the University rented the properties from private landlords and sub-let to students. This was on top of their stock of rooms in halls. Does this not happen any more?

Exactly jessie, small private landlords can't afford to take the risk of not getting a guarantee - particularly if they have mortgages, but even if they haven't.

So imv private rental from individual lls is not that good a way of providing student accommodation. many dparents are not that legally or financially sophisticated, can't afford to take legal advice (let alone meet the liability if it materialises) and anyway it tends to be a ll market so you can't negotiate not to provide a guarantee. As you say, university-provided accommodation may work better - it does still exist but i assume recent expansion of student numbers means there just isn't enough.

jellybeans If you think it is wrong what alternative do you propose?

Universities can't create new accommodation Tommy Coper style "just like that" - even if the money is there there are questions of space and planning consent, and it takes time. And no LL in possession of a working brain is going to let property to short-term floaters with no capital and little income without a guarantee from someone of more substance.

As for whoever thought a guarantee was a character reference - the clue is in the word, isn't it?

The kids will stay at home in future. I'm having this major battle with my ex at the moment because he wants them to "experience" living away and tells them that's what they should do but he's not intending to fund it.
My major concern is that they will be ok for the first year with a job etc, 2nd is where it gets hard and very difficult to juggle work and uni and they will drop out which seems according to statistics to be what's been happening. They are then in debt with no degree to show for it.

Ireallydontseewhy, my DP was unable to get a guarantor for his student rental when he was at uni, due to neither of his parents being homeowners / earning enough.
He was still allowed to rent, but I think he had to pay double the deposit or an extra month of rent upfront.

We are now living together and my father is the guarantor for both of us. I am very thankful for this - we wouldn't have been able to rent anywhere without it - but he trusts we won't default (we're both v careful with money and prioritise rent above all else). We do also have a healthy buffer of savings, which he knows we would use if needs be.

DP's mum is now a homeowner and did offer to act as a guarantor, but I'm not sure she earned enough anyway. She did, however, tell us not to tell DP's brother she had offered. He is horrendously bad with money and (sensibly imo) didn't want to take the risk with him. So I'd not say 'don't ever act as a guarantor', but I would say 'know what you're getting yourself in for and read the agreement carefully'.

I can't think of a worse program to watch. Looking at other peoples misfortunes being aired for all to see. I think it's quite disturbing that you enjoy watching it.

Andrewofgg
Many people have told me that they didn't need guarentor when they were at uni, yet it seems much more common now. I don't think it is fair to poorer families. Why should they take on the risks and debt of their adult children?

Luckily we could afford (some savings) for a huge deposit and DD paid some rent upfront. The uni also had some clout at getting some accommodation without guarentor although this was the less popular accom.

We have little choice but to be guarantors for our student DD1 for her accommodation at uni. If we didn't she would literally not have anywhere to live. As others have said, you can be literally between a rock and a hard place as if you don't give the guarantee then your child will be out on the streets (assuming that uni is nowhere near home).

DD1 has always been sensible there though and managed her money well, with part time jobs to make ends meet. She is also good at budgeting. We have been lucky.

I wouldn't do it otherwise though. There is no financial, legal or other advantage to being a guarantor. It is simply a safety net for the landlords and the tenants.

I am a landlord too by the way. I do need some tenants to have guarantors, just as a safety net. I have never yet had to go after the guarantors.

With regard to our own agreement regarding our DD1, we knew what we were doing and our agreement is limited to her share only, with the tenancy ending after less that one academic year anyway.

my mother in law is guarantor for us, but it would never ever happen that we would act in such a way! Only a horrid person would act in that way.

I can't understand how anyone can think it's ok to put their parents into this situation. My father was my guarantor for my mortgage when I was a student and would never have thought not to pay it just because my father backed me. I was just grateful that I was able to have my own flat and it worked out cherper then renting.

jellybeans It's called freedom of contract. That includes freedom not to enter into a contract, and no LL with any sense will do so without guarantees. Not with a student.

I saw that particular episode and was totally shocked by the daughter! I could not imagine doing that to my parents, she was a total shit, I felt so sorry for the parents, however, if nothing else, it served as a warning to others, read the documents for god's sake. I bet xmas is going to be very difficult in that house, from now on. 😠

I seen that episode before (it's a repeat) but I was shocked at the daughters disrespect for her struggling parents. I work in a letting agency and the percentage is very small that a guarantor will need to be involved or contacted. So the parents obviously signed it in good faith.

In many cases the tenants don't really need a guarantor because they are perfectly able to finance the tenancy themselves however the landlords won't trust them for various reasons such as being on benefits or having a disabled member of the family. In those cases if there is a well-off relative who can afford to underwrite the contract (and by that I mean they won't be left struggling if they have to fork out in an emergency) then I don't see why the less well-off person shouldn't be able to rely on that in order to make sure they aren't homeless.
It isn't just students and young people who find themselves in these positions. Families who have lost their jobs or losing their breadwinner due to bereavement or disability or accident or other misfortune beyond their control can find themselves in this sort of situation for a while and a guarantor can make the difference between a nice secure good quality rented home and a ratty, damp ridden one or even being homeless.
I don't understand why a parent who can't afford to cover their child's expenses would sign a contract saying they will cover them though nor can I see how a landlord would accept them as guarantors.
Maybe there is a correlation between parents who sign financially binding and onerous legal documents witout understanding them and offspring who are irresponsible with money and budgeting. Seems like a thread of irresponsibility going through the generations to me.
I would never ask someone to be a guarantor unless I was completely certain they could afford it AND I would be 99.99% certain I would never need to call on them to stump up for me AND that they were completely and fully clear on what they were agreeing to.

I've seen this episode and it is bad of the daughter to do this on her parents. I can feel the parents anguish at having to pay this money and to think their daughter would do this on them.It was a shock to the parents,they had no idea she was in debt in the first place,and then to drop them in it like they meant nothing to her was so wrong of her.

My land Lord originally wanted a guarantor from me when ok got my flat,but at the last minute told me it is ok I didn't need one.So good he trusted me.
But the problem I have had the past 3 years are letters coming through the door from debt collector addressed to the previous tenants.I've had loads threatening a bailiff visit.I contacted the debt company to explain and sent proof of me being new tenant. Then I was getting letters from the courts.I contacted the courts who said if bailiffs turn up I need to show my ID and a recent bill. They did turn up one day and this is what I did,all the time being recorded on camera. They went away.Told my landlord about this and he just said Don't worry he will let the authorities know I'm the new tenant. Months have past and now I get a letter through the door from the courts again with the heading to say power of arrest. If the person don't pay the debt immediately then they will be under arrest. So now I am expecting a visit from the police to arrest this person. I worry that any day they will come a break the door in as I've seen on tv before. If this does happen,can I get a solicitor to somehow put a claim in for me to get compensation.I live with my 2 young children and this will be like harassment by the authorities.

A timely thread. I've reluctantly agreed to act as guarantor for the son of my oldest friend. She wasn't allowed to do it as she is going to teach abroad on a contract which will run until December and the agency will not accept this as she has no guarantee of getting another job for the rest of next year (she called me in a very distressed state to tell me all this). She herself anticipates getting another job however. I have already flip flopped once as I was concerned that it was a joint tenancy as its a shared house, but I have been assured that I am acting as guarantor for her son only. I'm now having third thoughts about the whole thing and wish I hadn't agreed to to it. My friend assures me that she would never leave me in trouble, but that's not the point. I wish she'd never asked me to be honest, I feel like I'm in a position now where I can't say no, although I haven't signed any paperwork as yet.