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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have been so annoyed by this selfish people and to warn people from being guarantors ?

164 replies

Spice22 · 28/08/2016 02:41

Come back from holiday and catch up on my guilty pleasure ; Can't pay, we'll take it away!

In this episode, the parents signed as guarantors for their daughter's rent. She owes the landlord £3000. High court enforcement has gone to the parents, as the guarantors, to ask for the money. You can tell thy are only just making ends meet. Long story short , the daughter tells the parents "It's your debt, you pay it". ShockShockAngry

Genuinely shocked and angry on their behalf. How is it even ok that the parents are the ones threatened with losing their possessions, before they've threatened the daughter ??

Then another one shows a gentleman having to pay back more than £60k because he was a guarantor !

AIBU to be so shocked ,and annoyed, that such selfish and ungrateful people exist ?

OP posts:
ihaterealitytv · 29/08/2016 23:22

I'm surprised by how many people say they'd never be a guarantor so easily. My son just got a place at uni, and there were no spaces left in halls of residence. We soon found a privately rented house, but I either had to guarantee his rent or pay a years rent in advance. We were unable to find a house where I wasn't needed as a guarantor.

As a single parent whose ex has refused to work for the last eight years, I couldn't pay a years rent in advance.

I wonder how many people that say they'd never be a guarantor would tell their kid he couldn't go to uni in my position?

ihaterealitytv · 29/08/2016 23:27

panachronic, I just put my post on and saw yours. Being a guarantor for my own kid is necessary evil in my opinion, but I would never ask someone else to be his guarantor!
Most landlords don't do any checks at all on the guarantor, so your friend might be able to be the guarantor anyway!

panachronic · 29/08/2016 23:35

Ihaterealitytv - My friend's son is in his last yr at uni and she's been guarantor previously, but she said she made the mistake of telling the agency that her new job was contracted until end of December and because she doesn't have another job lined up for January the agency said that she couldn't be the guarantor.

Well done on your son getting a place at uni btw

ihaterealitytv · 29/08/2016 23:44

Thanks, very proud. That's a very difficult situation for you to be in.
If you didn't want to be a guarantor, it's possible your friends son could get a place from another landlord who doesn't ask so many questions.

panachronic · 30/08/2016 00:00

My friend's son is moving into a house with his friends, they are a very tight group by all accounts. I just need to tell her straight that I'm sorry but I can't help. I feel so awful tho, its ridiculous!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/08/2016 00:19

I really don't think this is made clear enough in the specific case of joint and several contracts: a lot of tenants, let alone their guarantors, would be pretty shocked to discover that they're liable if their housemate just disappears in the night leaving their share of the rent unpaid

Well they really should not be so naive.

There's quite a lot of nonsense on this thread about joint and several liability.

It is absolutely the norm in leases of any time of property for the lease to be granted to all the tenants jointly and severally.

Do you seriously think that if one tenant out of 4 doesn't pay the landlord should only pursue that tenant?

How do you think that works if it leads to an eviction for rent arrears? It is impossible in legal terms to evict only 1 out of a group of joint tenants.

Then there is the issue of damage to the property - how on earth is a landlord going to prove which 1 out of 4 or more tenants caused damage; or anti social behaviour. Landlords in Scotland are responsible for controlling anti social behaviour by tenants. If complaints are made by neighbours or the council landlord registration office how on earth do you think the landlord can determine which individual tenant or tenants were responsible.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/08/2016 00:25

I would have thought they would harass the daughter/her partner first and then move on to the parents once they had taken possessions from the daughter

Asking parties who signed a contract to pay for facilities provided to them is not "harassing" any one.

Do you think you are being "harassed" when a utility bill arrives or when a tradesman sends in his bill for work done?

Original poster
Spice22 · 30/08/2016 01:17

Lasswi you know what I meant.

Interesting to read everyone's opinions and own stories.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/08/2016 01:40

No I do not know what you meant. "Harass" has specific meanings both lay and legal.

Expecting and asking someone to meet their contractual obligations is not "harassing " them.

I think it is rather telling you use the word "harass" in this context- as if it were unreasonable for the party who is not being paid to expect to be paid.

Original poster
Spice22 · 30/08/2016 01:58

Lass I do actually believe they were harassing the parents. I say this because I think they should have gone to the daughter first to get their money (people have since explained about the costs etc).

The word harass is regarding the parents , not the daughter.

I don't know what my choice of word is "telling" you Hmm but I just feel for the parents. Mostly annoyed by the daughters actions and slightly annoyed by the system.

OP posts:
GotItInfamy · 30/08/2016 02:16

But what you are saying, Spice, takes us right back to page 1 of this thread. Why are you annoyed by 'the system'? If a person approaches a guarantor for repayment and they say no, can't do, what options do they have but to 'harass'? The guarantors are contractually obliged to repay the debt, it is a legally binding commitment they have made. If they didn't fully understand the process that is unfortunate for them. If the daughter has an outstanding loan with no guarantor then of course the bank/business will go after her. But it will cost them, and there may be no full repayment made which is precisely why most insist of guarantors.

jkgirl · 30/08/2016 06:06

I'm guarantor for my daughters 2nd year student flat, she lives away from home and it's too far to commute every day, so for her to continue her uni course she needs to live there.
The girls she lives with are responsible, and my daughter is responsible too, she has two jobs as well as her student loan, so I know there won't be a problem with her part of the loan.

YelloDraw · 30/08/2016 07:15

I was asked to guarantor my uni student ds....on enquiring further with the letting agency i found that the guarantor is responsible for all the people in the house not just your own child....needless to say i refused and paid his last 3 months rent instead to get out of it....

Yeah my parents got into shit like his - all parents acted as guarantors for their children in the house share - but actually each one could be chased for any debt due to the joint tenancy. One guy in my brothers house didn't pay and the LL came after my parents for the money! Was a pretty difficult time but basically ended up going round to his parents house and telling them what a little shit he was (they had no idea he hadn't paid his rent or anything) and getting the cash from his parents.

Craigie · 30/08/2016 07:28

There wouldn't be guarantors if the borrower/tenant was a good enough risk on their own. NEVER agree to be a guarantor for any debt you aren't willing/able to pay yourself.

Andrewofgg · 30/08/2016 12:15

Lukeymom - Are you in England/Wales?

The only debts which you can be arrested for here - if it is your debt and you owe it - are fines, certain taxes, CM and council tax. Any others and it's a bluff.

PersianCatLady · 30/08/2016 12:54

In those cases if there is a well-off relative who can afford to underwrite the contract
What cannot understand is that in some cases people say that the guarantors can't really afford to pay for the debts but from personal experience (see my post above) I know that the credit and finance checks are even more stringent on a guarantor than a tenant, which is what I cannot understand.

PersianCatLady · 30/08/2016 13:00

Months have past and now I get a letter through the door from the courts again with the heading to say power of arrest
As Andrewofgg has already said this is blatantly not true except for the debts mention and even only then in certain cases.

Please DO NOT fall for this common scare tactic!!!

MargaretCavendish · 30/08/2016 13:01

PersianCatLady When I was asked to be a guarantor for my brother (in the end he didn't need one) I was only asked for my income and a credit check, which I knew I'd pass. We couldn't possibly have paid the whole rent on his flat as well as our own mortgage, but I guess from their point of view I could afford it as I had a high enough income and we have our own property which they could claim against. Obviously if the debt resulted in us losing our home then I wouldn't consider that 'affording' it!

Original poster
Spice22 · 30/08/2016 13:01

Gotit yes, I get that now. I was explains why ,in my OP, I had used those words.

OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 30/08/2016 13:05

Even if they can afford it, why should the guarantor pay out just because the main signatory has decided that they don't want to be a responsible adult? There are probably just as many 'won't pays' as there are 'can't pays'.

JessieMcJessie · 30/08/2016 13:10

Barbaraof Seville the Guarantor has to pay out if the tenant has decided not to pay because the Guarantor has entered into a binding contract with the landlord which obliges him/her to pay in exactly this situation. The tenant's reasons for non-payment are of absolutely no relevance to the Guarantor's obligations to the landlord.

The whole point is that the risk of the tenant acting like a twat is transferred contractually from the landlord to the Guarantor. The Guarantor needs to understand this before executing the guarantee.

PersianCatLady · 30/08/2016 13:12

I guess from their point of view I could afford it as I had a high enough income and we have our own property which they could claim against
I supposed each letting agent does it differently but with the one I used when my Dad told them that he was thinking of retiring, he was expecting them just to say never mind you have a few private pensions, your own house, savings and another property but NO.

They were basically for him no wage, no guarantor!!!

Pisssssedofff · 30/08/2016 13:18

Because that's the point of a garantor Barabara, people ie landlords hope that people tenents won't shaft their own relatives and yet they do. Only once hopefully.

MargaretCavendish · 30/08/2016 13:32

They were basically for him no wage, no guarantor!!!

Yes, I think that is the rule - and that's exactly why people ending up guaranteeing rents they couldn't afford to pay, because high wage doesn't always equal high amount of available cash. We have reasonable incomes but live in an expensive part of the south east with a big mortgage and big commuting costs; I imagine a well-off retiree would indeed have a much bigger disposable income! For my brother the criteria seemed to just be that you needed to be a bit (but not that much) better off than you would need to be to rent the flat without a guarantor. Obviously I could afford to live in the flat, that doesn't mean I could afford to pay to rent it while also paying all my own bills and living expenses!

Topseyt · 30/08/2016 13:39

Barbara, you answer your own question in your post.

The guarantor has signed a legally binding agreement stating that they will pay the rent if for any reason at all the tenant defaults or becomes unable to pay.