To think the breast is best strategy is all wrong

[SheepOrWine]

Just back from the health visitor clinic where I was at in front of an entire wall (no exaggeration) telling me why breast is best. Apparently for one young woman it was the best decision she EVER made. This morning I read about another study which "proves" that breast is best (presumably because the many, many existing studies on this are not enough and they needed another one?) At my NHS antenatal breastfeeding class, more than half of the allocated time was dedicated to the benefits of breastfeeding.

Has anyone ever been persuaded to breastfeed by a poster or a news article? Is there anyone out there who seriously has not yet heard the "breast is best" message? Does the NHS just think women are a bit stupid but if you tell them to do something enough times they will do it?

Wouldn't this money be better spent on helping those women who want to breastfeed to do so successfully? Three months ago I was on a postnatal ward with DD where I received conflicting and often incorrect breastfeeding advice. Every time I buzzed for support a frazzled looking HCA or midwife would come and glance at the latch say "yeah that's fine" and walk off. I asked four times to see the breastfeeding advisor but she never arrived. I was discharged without anyone observing a feed.

8 weeks on I gave up breastfeeding as I just had enough of all the various problems I was having with it and for which I was completely unprepared. Before I had DD the posters were useless as like most women, I already knew I wanted to try to breastfeed. And now, post-breastfeeding, all these posters do is just make me feel guilty. What a waste of money.

Oh, ok. I see. People don't have to justify their choice to FF, but if you want to continue to BF despite difficulties, you're an (implied) idiot?

I daresay she did it because she fucking wanted to. Because she felt it was important. She was failed repeatedly by healthcare professionals of all types, and yet you criticise her??

Wow.

resurgam I think you are right there - it is a cheap way to get the message out. You will be pleased to hear that the wall at my health visitor clinic does include saving money and not having to sterilise bottles as some of the many many (many) benefits of breastfeeding!

But isn't persuasion (or in some cases, pressure) to breastfeed without adequate support actually counterproductive? Lots of women intending to breastfeed but without the right preparation/advice/help which means they give up early and feel shit about it?

Hubble that wasn't to you. It was A, not B.

I didn't carry out proper research about breast is best until very recently and was shocked at how little and how poor the evidence is that best us breast in the developed world. There seem to be no studies looking at causation and only a very few poor quality studies that have found some correlation with better outcomes but these do not exclude confounding. I could only conclude that while breast might be best in the developed world there isn't actually any evidence that confirms this.

Then that's no problem at all. I know I had some very complex feelings of guilt and failure when I considered giving up BF. It's a very emotive issue and I'm sure a lot of it came from external pressure.

Me too Hubble. I gave up for medical reasons - I had to stop taking my medication in order to feed. I felt so guilty I kept putting off "taking the pill" until 8 weeks, at which point I couldn't even stand, let alone care for my baby. DM and DF had to come everyday to help me for two weeks. What with paternity leave, we couldn't afford for dh to take the time, he had almost no holiday left.

And yet the guilt is still so much that I am considering doing exactly the same next time despite dh asking me not to, as we'll have a toddler and a baby. My logical brain says it's not worth it, but my conscience says I am a failure of a mother if I don't.

Wish my conscience would fuck off, tbh!

(it took 14 weeks of an elevated dose before I started to feel well again.)

sheep as someone who has done both and didn't want to give up BF but had to because drug I had to take was toxic I would say it is a complex issue.

The best support is from friends and family as this is who we trust the most. In my case MIL ( confirmed FF) used to loom over me telling me DC wasn't getting enough. DH was not supportive because his mother said FF better. However I was BF and my family were huge advocates so I stuck with it for as long as I was able. I think if DM had not been pro BF it would have been much harder to continue.

So yes to practical support from professionals but perhaps more poster campaigns targeted at an older generation as to benefits and need for support.

Just to put things in perspective - many times more ££££ are spent on formula marketing than are spent promoting breastfeeding.

There has to be SOME balance hadn't there?

Honey I think you will find FF mums have to constantly defend their choice. It's not a badge of honour to bf. The 'movement' has gone so far that it denigrates women who don't bf.

My view is: My tits. My choice.

That should go for ALL women not just those who choose to bf

And no I don't understand 6 months of pain - I know people in NHS who support bf and they would be appalled at the idea of this and wouldn't encourage anyone to continue under those circumstances.

"I could only conclude that while breast might be best in the developed world there isn't actually any evidence that confirms this."

Breastfeeding is the biological norm, no proof is needed.

Why aren't you looking for evidence that formula is 100% safe and not associated with poorer health outcomes?

'Breast is best' is not propaganda, as stated by a PP, any more than formula advertising is propaganda. There is no money to be made from breastfeeding, whereas there is much to be made from formula, so any 'advertising' for breastfeeding purely comes down to the physiological benefits of it. It's all its got.

Having said that, YA absolutely NBU. I finding incredible that after millions of years of evolution, breastfeeding is still so incredibly difficult to get established for most women. And I say this as someone who breastfed two DC beyond a year apiece.

The first 6 weeks of DC1's life were hellish. DH and I spent the two weeks of his paternity leave driving out to breastfeeding support groups (in the middle of a snowy winter) because I was so determined to do it (the pressure I put on myself was ridiculous, in hindsight).

I had to be utterly proactive to make it happen - the support didn't come to me. And not many people are in a position to do that.

I also think being the sole person responsible for night time feeds and, really, being the only able to in any way settle/soothe the baby - day and night - is overwhelming for many. Too overwhelming. I skirted on the edges of PND with both DC, and I think the pressure of BFing, the night time feeds and the lack of sleep, were mostly responsible.

We live in a different age, and there are so many things that work against breastfeeding. When it's established, it's great, don't get me wrong. But the crushing responsibility (baby just wants the one with the boobs) and the lack of sleep - for me - made it not a happy time.

I know other breastfeeders will have had a very different experience from me (and getting DC2 established was a breeze in comparison). But I do think it's important to talk about these things, as they're what conspire to lower breastfeeding rates, out people of trying - and persevering - and we need to be realistic about it.

mini with the exception of TV adverts, I have literally never seen any formula marketing. Ever. Am I missing some?

The only formula TV advert I can recall off the top of my head is the one with the swimming baby. Are some women persuaded to formula feed because of a swimming baby?

God, sorry for all the typos.

And no one should ever feel guilty about how they feed their baby. Ever.

The health of mum and baby is paramount. I have had FT and prem babies. One on which was piled with drugs to survive. FF a baby isn't ever the worst that can happen. Just enjoy them however they are fed. The paranoia or bf is frightening - and not worth it

"mini with the exception of TV adverts, I have literally never seen any formula marketing. Ever. Am I missing some? "

When you go to the supermarket, have a look at all the mother and baby mags. They are ALL stuffed with formula adverts.

Have you ever seen a tv ad for breastfeeding? Or an add promoting breastfeeding in a commercial publication? Or on a bus shelter?

Anything that makes a new mother feel cunty is just awful!

"evolution, breastfeeding is still so incredibly difficult to get established for most women."

In the UK certainly. But not everywhere.

Always the same people on these threads. Always the same spats. Always ends in a slanging match. Yawn 🙄

"Anything that makes a new mother feel cunty is just awful"

Safe sleeping info makes women whose babies will only sleep on their sides or backs feel awful. Never heard it described as 'cunty' though or heard any suggestion that we should stop any other forms of health promotion because they make women who can't/ won't follow recommendations feel bad.

mini so are you saying it's better to have lots of promotion of breastfeeding, but without adequate support to actually breastfeed, than to spend less on marketing and more on helping those who want to breastfeed to do successfully?

Failure of biological processes is proof of evolution really.

If humans were designed we wouldn't fall to shit so readily. But we're not. So we do.

forty I did wonder if it might go that way and if it does it will be a shame. Because I do think there is a valid point here (fairly obviously I guess, seeing as I started the thread) and I think the NHS strategy could be so much more effective. Someone up thread mentioned that MNHQ might be doing a campaign on postnatal care and I think it's important that this is addressed as part of that.

I'm just going to love this here for you all to read: www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/
It outlines, as blaeberry points out, the case against the tremendous over exaggerated benefits of breastfeeding.

mini Here is the Lullaby Trust research into SIDS. As you can see, putting babies to sleep on their back is the primary contributor to the fall in SIDS. www.lullabytrust.org.uk/file/Evidence-Base-updated-Oct-14.pdf

Sorry, mini I miss read your post.