To think the breast is best strategy is all wrong

[SheepOrWine]

Just back from the health visitor clinic where I was at in front of an entire wall (no exaggeration) telling me why breast is best. Apparently for one young woman it was the best decision she EVER made. This morning I read about another study which "proves" that breast is best (presumably because the many, many existing studies on this are not enough and they needed another one?) At my NHS antenatal breastfeeding class, more than half of the allocated time was dedicated to the benefits of breastfeeding.

Has anyone ever been persuaded to breastfeed by a poster or a news article? Is there anyone out there who seriously has not yet heard the "breast is best" message? Does the NHS just think women are a bit stupid but if you tell them to do something enough times they will do it?

Wouldn't this money be better spent on helping those women who want to breastfeed to do so successfully? Three months ago I was on a postnatal ward with DD where I received conflicting and often incorrect breastfeeding advice. Every time I buzzed for support a frazzled looking HCA or midwife would come and glance at the latch say "yeah that's fine" and walk off. I asked four times to see the breastfeeding advisor but she never arrived. I was discharged without anyone observing a feed.

8 weeks on I gave up breastfeeding as I just had enough of all the various problems I was having with it and for which I was completely unprepared. Before I had DD the posters were useless as like most women, I already knew I wanted to try to breastfeed. And now, post-breastfeeding, all these posters do is just make me feel guilty. What a waste of money.

Just my experience but DS went from two hourly breastfeeds to not waking at all with formula. Sanity restored!

No I'm not. I think waking every half hour at 12m is normal. Although I don't think 'normal' in this context is helpful. Doesnt really matter what's normal, you get the baby you get.

I think if frequent waking wasn't normal there would be a hugely reduced market for baby books and sleep trainers, night nannies etc.

How people approach waking is up to them, their family etc. But plenty of formula feeders have a one year old in their bed. Plenty of breastfeeders sleep train.

It's not a breastfeeding thing.

Um, I wouldn't class once a night as a crappy sleeper

Every 30 mins, yes.

I have never ever seen a single bfeeding support group say it's ok to sleep train. Even gently. Even when "baby" is 18 months and up every hour for milk.

That's my point. They present an inevitability of zero sleep. Doesn't have to be that way.

I was told by the midwife that the hours between 12am and 3am is when you should be breastfeeding as it increases your milk supply. I don't know how true this is but I think a lot of mothers are under the impression that substituting BF for FF at night means babies will sleep for longer stretches. My DC has always been a good sleeper though so I don't know if this is a myth or if there's some fact behind it.

Night feeds are v v important in early days to establish supply.

At 12 months? Not so much.

My DS has a bedtime bottle of formula and it hasn't made a jot of difference to his sleep. Only sleep training has done that.

I was told by a locum GP (first mastitis event) that my nipples were sore because demand feeding was ludicrous. All babies only needed ten minutes each side every four hours and a dummy to suck. 1995 - elderly gentleman twit

The major issue I have with the whole bfing v bottle debate is that bfing counsellors will generally NOT tell women to stop feeding when it clearly isn't working. Hungry, constantly screaming babies and tired mums are not good for your mental health and I think that the all health care professionals should be careful to suggest that its best for your baby and you to try and breast feed, but that formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative, especially at a time when women are vulnerable.

I used to run NCT postnatal meeting for women in NW london and we had many women who clearly were not ever going to produce enough milk being encouraged to carry on and being made to feel inadequate if they were giving formula. Most women can give formula as a top up and then either continue to mix feed or go back to only bfing when their child is weaned or if they decide to give up. I used to find the La Leche league particularly persistent.

NB:
DC2 and DC3 had a dream feed with formula at 5 weeks (after bfing established, DC3 wouldn't have a dummy). both slept 7pm-7am from that time onwards.

I breast feed and sleep trained DS at 10 months of age. His sleep was appalling, we had a whole host of issues that needed addressing and breast feeding to sleep was one of them.

I had a woman at work tell me that it's not normal for young BF babies to feed for 30 minutes at a time every couple of hours and was stupid for having allowed my baby to behave like that

I agree karoleann

As I mentioned in a previous post. This is what happened to me.

"but that formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative"

With respect - this is not the case for everyone.

I would have gone a LONG way not to use it.

Breastfeeding counsellors are required to take the health of the baby into account with their recommendations. If a baby's health was being significantly compromised by poor milk supply then they would suggest topping up with formula if it was acceptable to the mother or using donor milk if it wasn't. Why should they tell a mother to stop breastfeeding if she can continue to breastfeed and this is what she wants to do? That is not their role.

I've just been reading the book Breast Intentions which suggests that sometimes women want to be told to stop breastfeeding because they don't want to take responsibility for the decision to stop - they feel guilty about it. So when the breastfeeding counsellor says 'No, it's fine for you to carry on breastfeeding if that's what you want to do, and just top up with formula until you've found a way of addressing your bf problems/for as long as you like, and your baby is gaining the right amount of weight," it's really difficult for the mum because actually she wants to stop breastfeeding but can't admit it. But it really isn't the role of the BF counsellor to TELL her.

Well said.

In my role I would get lynched if I told a mom to stop breast feeding.

If she wanted to stop then I would fully support that and help her in whatever way was needed but when it comes to making the decision to stop it is nobody's choice but the mother's. Professionals cannot put ideas into women's head that they should stop breast feeding - the woman has to come to that conclusion herself.

I've actually found LLL to be the least judgy of the lot funnily enough. My local LLL Facebook group is the only bfeeding support group I'm part of where you are allowed to discuss sleep training or ask about the introduction of formula. The LLL who runs it is not allowed to endorse either of these things but she is happy for others to discuss them. A far cry from groups like CIBII where you can't even mention formula or sleep training of any kind.

The whole bring your own formula thing is made very clear in my trust, obviously can't speak for anyone else's
I am absolutely appalled that this is the case but I can definitely believe it. What I don't understand is that if you need to FF after giving birth are you expected to start sterilising bottles and making up formula straight away??

Miaow

That's fucking vile, that happened at your local children's centre?!

Bringing formula to hospital is no trouble if you plan to FF and have stocked up on the tiny prepared bottles with presterilised teats. The price of them suggests that the formula contains added unicorn tears, so they aren't for everyone.

Obviously that leaves a vast number of mothers out.

they were already hassling me about had I brought in a pack of preemie sized nappies
That is awful, the more of these comments I am reading the more I am realising that things have dramatically changed in maternity wards (and not for the better).

I am also realising that I was so lucky to have had my son when I did as I stayed in the hospital for 5 days after he was born, not for any particular reason but that was how long you were allowed to stay for.

Even though I had been shown the very basic skills I still felt like I was being sent home without adequate preparation but I cannot imagine how much worse that would be if I had only been in hospital for a day or two.

PersianCatLady
You get little premade and sterilised mini bottles with teats on in the supermarket. The same kind the hospital would be giving you anyway. The NHS just does not have the money to pay for every baby. Of course if you're in need they will bring the formula bottle to your bedside/feed the baby though.

Bringing formula to hospital is no trouble if you plan to FF and have stocked up on the tiny prepared bottles with presterilised teats
That is exactly what they used to give you in the hospital. I did not know that you could actually buy them like that.

Just out of interest I have looked them up on the Sainsbury's website and they cost £8 for 6 tiny 70ml bottles. While I know that this exact product will be more expensive than making bottles up from powder I am absolutely disgusted at the blatant profiteering that is going on with the price of these products.

I am a Doctor (not paeds/obstetrics/GP) and I can tell you we had a 30minute talk about breastfeeding in my 6 years at medical school. Which didn't cover any of the practicalities of feeding, more physiology and the health benefits. This is part of the problem- women having problems turn to HCPs who are wholly unversed in the practicalities of feeding.

My mother didn't breastfeed, although my MIL and was very supportive. When I was pregnant I read all the information I could about breastfeeding, and read online forums etc. I also read "The Womanly Art" and I have to say these all terrified me and convinced me that breastfeeding would be painful, difficult and that I'd never sleep ever again.

In the end I had a crash section, severe infection and a PPH. I spent a night in ICU and a week in a hellish postnatal ward. DD was brought to me for her first feed- she latched without a problem and I never experienced any pain. She lost 11% weight by day 3, but was well and my milk had just come in so we were just observed. My only difficulties were cluster feeding (which I found miserable but only lasted a few weeks), bottle refusal (as others have said it was a much bigger issue than nipple confusion) and weaning (it's very hard to stop breastfeeding a breast obsessed toddler!). I had gallons of milk (could easily express 10oz in one sitting), DD slept well and gained weight just fine after the first few days. I loved breastfeeding, found it so convenient and simple. I feel bad for women who find it difficult and get poor support because when it's going well it's an incredible parenting tool- there was no issue my DD had in the first year that wasn't solved by milk or a nappy change!

I think a more practical approach would be sensible- more information about the realities of breastfeeding, cluster feeding, frequent feeding and how to recognise problems. More education of HCPs. Educate parents on how things often get so much easier after the first few weeks. And information about how to introduce bottles etc.

I don't know anyone in real life who judges other women for formula feeding. I was absolutely prepared to use formula if breastfeeding didn't work out. I often looked at women bottle feeding to try to mimic what they did in trying to get DD to drink a bottle, and would ask their advice. I found I was judged for continuing to breastfeed DD after 6 weeks (by my mother) and 6 months by most others. I don't think anyone outside my immediate family knows I breastfed past one year (actually just stopped a week ago, at 2.4).

I would happily have brought my own formula, had I not received the message at hospital antenatal classes that I would be wasting my money and/or setting myself up to fail, and that bottles shouldn't be introduced until 6 weeks if you want to breastfeed!

I'm not exaggerating - my DH was there too and that's the message he took from it as well.