To think the breast is best strategy is all wrong

[SheepOrWine]

Just back from the health visitor clinic where I was at in front of an entire wall (no exaggeration) telling me why breast is best. Apparently for one young woman it was the best decision she EVER made. This morning I read about another study which "proves" that breast is best (presumably because the many, many existing studies on this are not enough and they needed another one?) At my NHS antenatal breastfeeding class, more than half of the allocated time was dedicated to the benefits of breastfeeding.

Has anyone ever been persuaded to breastfeed by a poster or a news article? Is there anyone out there who seriously has not yet heard the "breast is best" message? Does the NHS just think women are a bit stupid but if you tell them to do something enough times they will do it?

Wouldn't this money be better spent on helping those women who want to breastfeed to do so successfully? Three months ago I was on a postnatal ward with DD where I received conflicting and often incorrect breastfeeding advice. Every time I buzzed for support a frazzled looking HCA or midwife would come and glance at the latch say "yeah that's fine" and walk off. I asked four times to see the breastfeeding advisor but she never arrived. I was discharged without anyone observing a feed.

8 weeks on I gave up breastfeeding as I just had enough of all the various problems I was having with it and for which I was completely unprepared. Before I had DD the posters were useless as like most women, I already knew I wanted to try to breastfeed. And now, post-breastfeeding, all these posters do is just make me feel guilty. What a waste of money.

I decided not to, from about day 4. Never looked back. No guilt here.

My DS is 5 months on Sunday and he's 95% BF (the odd bottle of formula every 2-3 days). It's been a fucking nightmare.

He was very slow to latch and feed after he was born, he was mucousy and jaundiced and lost 12% of his birthweight by 3 days. We were sent back to hospital, he was given formula top-ups and put under lights for the night. He started refusing the breast that night. I pumped everything on day 4 because he just howled at the breast and on day 5 a peer supporter got us going. He clusterfed every single day until 12 weeks and then abruptly changed his feeding habits. He extended the intervals between feeds and started sleeping the night at the same time and my boob took a total shitfit - mastitis, blocked ducts, milk blisters - something about every 10 days in late June, July and half of August.

In desperation I called an IBCLC and she did a home visit when DS was 20 weeks... He's had a fucking tongue tie the whole time. She said it's only sheer bloodymindedness and significant oversupply that has us still boobing. We're waiting for an NHS referral but are on the clock because of his age, if he hits 26 weeks they won't do it.

We plan to try again next year and DH wants to formula feed the next one because he never wants to see me go through that again.

Sheep. I agree, your original point is correct. The focus of the BIB campaign is wrong, no amount of posters or leaflets help in the middle of the night when practical hands-on advice about BF is what you need. I'm past all that now and happy with the decisions I made at the time. I still remember the posters who pile into ALL the breastfeeding threads. They are the same ones as in 2012/2013 when I was in the thick of it all.

I love that article cosmic

metalmidget it may be annoying to hear, but there is no way you should still be sore when feeding at 5 weeks. And cluster feeding for 12 hours with such short breaks is unusual. Sometimes a latch can appear perfect but be very much not perfect inside...have you had a second opinion?

evolution, breastfeeding is still so incredibly difficult to get established for most women.

In the UK certainly. But not everywhere.

Well, it's enough of an issue internationally, that a demand for formula was created, and formula is now the 'normal' way of feeding, post-6 weeks, in many, many countries.

My point was simply that it's a shame that breastfeeding is so incredibly difficult, for so many women. Even women like me, who get it established and persevere.

These threads always turn any kind of breastfeeding promotion into "propoganda" that is obviously put up with the sole purpose of making formula feeders feel guilty we can support feeding choices without condemning the other!
Of course everyone agrees that more physical breastfeeding support should be provided but unfortunately budgets and manpower only stretches so far on the NHS.

Also, god forbid a woman should want to persevere with breastfeeding despite pain! They are obviously just being manipulated by the breastfeeding nazis. Surely the "my body, my choice and no judgement" works both ways?

My daughter has a tongue tie that went undiagnosed by a midwife, a HV and a lactation consultant.
I had 3 courses of antibiotics and 2 courses of thrush treatment in our breastfeeding journey.
By month 5 I just switched to formula as I was so exhausted. I 100% agree with the OP that all the breastfeeding money should be spent on actual support and not motherfucking posters that just make people feel inadequate

Well, that's one newspaper article.

There's also no evidence that feeding older children on a diet of fresh foods in preference to 100% canned, jarred or dehydrated foods is beneficial. It's just not (unlike formula feeding) a socially acceptable parenting practice.

Show you miss my point, I think. All it took was a few minutes with someone who knew what they were doing and all problems solved. I completely agree 6 months of pain is totally unacceptable. That's why we stepped in. We shouldn't have had to. The situation should never have developed. The multiple HCPs should have been equipped with the training and knowledge to help her, 6 months ago. That is the point I was making.

The pain thing. I get you. I don't understand why people attempt childbirth without painkillers. But other people do, and it's their choice, and I am not going to criticise them for it and express horror that they would choose to do something like that when there are perfectly valid alternatives. Their uterus, their choice.

I completely agree with you. My whole adult life I assumed I would be able to breastfeed. From the NHS literature and my NCT antenatal class I had literally no idea of the kind of problems I encountered. Baby born with severe jaundice, too unwell to latch on even once, baby got sicker & sicker as I squeezed colostrum out by hand & bruised myself, told to bottle feed to get the fluid he needed, but pressured to pump every 3h round the clock to give him EBM. I spent hundreds of pounds on two lactation consultants privately, as I was given such conflicting advice from hospital staff over a 7 day stay. I made myself unwell by pumping like a crazy thing every 3h for 12 weeks in the desperate hope he would leRn to latch. I ended up with PND. I was incredibly angry with the manipulative & one-sided facade of the breastfeeding mafia. I was longing for someone to acknowledge to me that despite my best efforts it just might not be possible & to offer me comfort rather than judgement.

I held onto the fact that there were wet nurses in the old days and nowadays we have formula. Without, my baby would not have survived. Literally.

Put the money into qualified lactation consultants on the wards who are funded to do daily home follow up visits for 10 to 20 days - the same consultant, NOT a different person every time.

minifingerz the studies (observational not trials) looked at differences between breast feeding and alternatives (not always formula which is one of the problems with them). There wasn't any evidence that formula feeding in the developed world caused poorer outcomes.

Lots of things are biological norms, being natural doesn't make them infallible or harmless in all situations .

Also, god forbid a woman should want to persevere with breastfeeding despite pain! They are obviously just being manipulated by the breastfeeding nazis. Surely the "my body, my choice and no judgement" works both ways?

Hear, hear!

I tried to bf my first born and it ended very badly. I felt guilty when asked if I would bf my second child knowing there was no way I would ever attempt it again. I'm now pregnant with my 5th and no longer feel that guilt for not trying again.

I had little support when trying to bf and was discharged from hospital feeling very nervous, despite this I tried to do what I thought was best and persevered with breast feeding, I developed mastitis and after seeing my gp was advised that if I continued to bf and try to unblock the milk duct myself things would improve. Things gradually got worse and I ended up really ill with a breast abscess, my skin actually burst above my nipple and oozed pus, I had to have an operation under general anasthetic to drain the abscess and the wound was left open so it could heal from the inside out, for the next 8 weeks I had to visit the gp to have it packed with sterile gauze, every day, it was excruciating, and through all that I missed out on bonding with my daughter & had to deal with feeling guilty about not breastfeeding her. She will be 8 in december and I'll always be gutted (and irrationally bitter) that whilst I lost time bonding with her, my mil was there looking after her when I couldn't.
I was really let down by the lack of support with bf'ing and agree more effort, time & money should be used to help women intending to.

Just as an aside... whenever someone uses the "biological norm" argument I can't help but think...well, my "biological norm" would have been dying in childbirth (retained placenta, massive PPH). Would that have been an automatically better outcome because it was natural?!

blaeberry we meet again for more corrolation/ causation chat. I think you are my new girl crush (twirls hair).

In all seriousness, it is one article but it leads to a whole lot of reading that rocked my world. Again, there is too much mis-information about feeding for people to make informed, well supported choices.

mini If you don't believe the article then why don't you read the original research?

I had an awful time with BF. DD1 lost weight every day, at 8 weeks I gave her a bottle of formula, didn't even know how to make the formula or sterilise a bottle. I felt like a failure and cried my eyes out. Guilt overload. DD2 I tried again, same thing happened. Lost weight rapidly, cried all the time, constantly on the breast. Went to BF cafe, told my latch was wrong and that it was not possible to not have enough milk. Went back twice a week for 3 weeks, same thing......then someone grabbed my boob and realised I didn't have enough milk and that is because I am hypothyroid. Then I was put on domperidone, had to feed almost constantly, pump 10 times a day in between, wear a bottle of formula round my neck with little tubes taped to my nipples so she could feed and stimulate the supply at the same time. I ended up managing to feed her for 6 months but I regret all those efforts. I did not enjoy the time with my baby, nor did she. DD1 had to put her 4 Yo self to bed many nights as I was a single mum. I put us all through hell to BF because I felt I would be a bad mother if I didn't.

Sheep totally agree. In my family, only my dad would still be alive. Dsis, dbro, DM and i would have all died in a 3 year period.

Sorry, but I cannot stand the whole BIB campaign. I totally disagree that we need to "normalise breastfeeding". That has already happened!!!! Instead people who choose to formula feed are made to feel like absolute shit. I faced derogatory comments about how I fed my babies, mostly when I was feeding them in public.

One that stands out was my first ever trip by myself with my 8 week old twins - I went to a friend's daughter's party, my babies cried for food and another person there (a NCT breast feeding 'supporter') asked "how do you feed them both?" I answered "like this, with s bottle in each hand" to which she replied "that's disappointing"!!!!

That was 8 years ago and it still makes my blood boil. I fucking hate that whole campaign!!!!

Fully intended to do it. Started. Broken hearted when I couldn't carry on - serious health problems. Felt (whether made to feel or not) like a total failure. The Breast is Best campaign is not backed up by proper support. And when you can't give your baby the best , what are you? A failure - at least that's how I felt. 9 years ago and it still hurts if I think about it.

DS was born prematurely via emergency CS and rushed off to SCBU. I felt utterly lost and out of control but I remembered all the 'breast is best' messages and decided one thing I must do to help DS was to provide him EBM which was tube fed to him (as he hadn't yet developed his suck reflex). I battled on expressing every 3 hours, but my body wasn't ready and the amount I produced was minimal. Still the amazing nurses encouraged me, and once DS was able to suck they spent hours supporting me to BF. Unfortunately DS wasn't gaining weight and so I was encouraged by the consultant to give FF 'top ups'. Again the nurses showed us how to prepare formula safely. After DS's birth I had to stay on a ward full of other mums and their full term babies (a very difficult experience with a baby in SCBU) and I heard the standard talk they had from the midwifes over and over. After all the support I'd had from the SCBU nurses I couldn't believe how little information these full terms mums were given before they were sent off home both in relation to BF or safe preparation of formula. After SCBU I fought on BF with FF top ups for almost 3 months, but unfortunately I then became seriously ill and had to have emergency surgery and was put on massive doses of medication which meant I couldn't BF. At that point, being surrounded by 'breast is best messages' in my Drs surgery (which I was having to visit daily for treatment) I felt like I had utterly let DS down and gave myself a very hard time about it. It was only after a good talk with my mum (who BF 5 kids including twins) and my HV that I was able to accept that I'd done amazing job to get as far as I did with BF and that what matters is having a baby who is fed with a mum who is happy and not beating herself up for being a failure. DS is now 9 months old and a beautiful, smiley, strong healthy baby. Yes, I think it's really important to have support for mum's who want to BF, but also I think there is so much emphasis put on the 'breast is best message' that mum's who desperately wanted to BF but can't are made to feel like failures, and also there is very little information given on how to prepare formula safely as health professionals are so focused on the BF message.

Yabu
Bf is free and available for most people- however - culturally it's seen as a 'lifestyle' and a bit odd in some communities.
If you decide it's not for you- no problem, but if you start of ff and want to go back it's virtually impossible meanwhile £12 tubs mount up
If you're pro bf in U.K. People think you're crunchy- it's not seen as normal enough of the time

Minifngerz What personal axe are you grinding? I'm all for the empowerment of women with good information & support. Not about making them feel bad for the educated choices they make. Whether they share my philosophy or not.

ladyjaney my milk dried up because of my thyroid

Not one of the dozen BF support workers/professionals I spoke to asked if I had any other health problems.
The GP said it was obvious and I should have been warned. I think it's a real failing in the system

I'm worried now after reading another thread is that I made up bottles all wrong! Where's the support for that!

I read somewhere that we have a breast feeding policy but not a breast feeding culture in the UK.

Totally agree with PP that the messaging is over the top while the support offered often falls short, especially if you are having problems.

Breast feeding worked out well for me but I got private support before id even given birth (we had a v experienced doula, she helped me to feed DD shortly after her brith and we arranged for her to visit weekly for the first few weeks) as well as doing loads of my own reading and learning before and after I gave birth. I also went to a local breast feeding group every week for several weeks, to get any queries and worries answered.

All of which meant when disaster struck at 4 months (acute appendicitis for me, a week In hospital on IV anti biotic a without DD) I was able to fight the 'well just stop breast feeding' line from the NHS (oh the irony!) and push through it.