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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think the breast is best strategy is all wrong

449 replies

SheepOrWine · 26/08/2016 18:20

Just back from the health visitor clinic where I was at in front of an entire wall (no exaggeration) telling me why breast is best. Apparently for one young woman it was the best decision she EVER made. This morning I read about another study which "proves" that breast is best (presumably because the many, many existing studies on this are not enough and they needed another one?) At my NHS antenatal breastfeeding class, more than half of the allocated time was dedicated to the benefits of breastfeeding.

Has anyone ever been persuaded to breastfeed by a poster or a news article? Is there anyone out there who seriously has not yet heard the "breast is best" message? Does the NHS just think women are a bit stupid but if you tell them to do something enough times they will do it?

Wouldn't this money be better spent on helping those women who want to breastfeed to do so successfully? Three months ago I was on a postnatal ward with DD where I received conflicting and often incorrect breastfeeding advice. Every time I buzzed for support a frazzled looking HCA or midwife would come and glance at the latch say "yeah that's fine" and walk off. I asked four times to see the breastfeeding advisor but she never arrived. I was discharged without anyone observing a feed.

8 weeks on I gave up breastfeeding as I just had enough of all the various problems I was having with it and for which I was completely unprepared. Before I had DD the posters were useless as like most women, I already knew I wanted to try to breastfeed. And now, post-breastfeeding, all these posters do is just make me feel guilty. What a waste of money.

OP posts:
QuackDuckQuack · 27/08/2016 13:28

Free formula is prescription only formula. So not regular formula, but for example cows milk protein free formula. My DD needed lactose free formula for a while and that isn't prescribed as it is widely available and not massively more expensive than regular formula.

Advicepls7080 · 27/08/2016 13:42

Are healthy start vouchers for formula milk or for cows milk? I think they're given to low income families aren't they?

Advicepls7080 · 27/08/2016 14:07

I'm quite concerned that I'm not feeling anything yet :( I literally have no other chance to get this sorted after today

Advicepls7080 · 27/08/2016 14:07

Wrong friggin thread

GoldenWorld · 27/08/2016 15:12

That poster is extremely patronising. But it's not just breastfeeding, postnatal care in the NHS is shit. And I'm allowed to say that because I'm a midwife. Grin

Our breastfeeding training emphasises the importance of the first "golden" hour for uninterrupted skin to skin to establish breastfeeding, and if you interrupt this process it messes up the baby's natural instincts. Oh how I laughed. This was clearly written by a person who doesn't work on a high risk, busy London delivery suite. It just happens so rarely. It's wrong that we're essentially fucking it up from the start because we now have to do suturing (and I was appalled when I heard a midwife tell someone she couldn't feed the baby and be sutured at the same time. Yes, it's more difficult but you definitely can), baby needs to be weighed, notes need to be done, the woman has to get in the shower so we can shove her off to the ward as quickly as possible so we can use the bed for someone else coming in. I've been shouted at before for not getting a woman off within 3 hours or told to hurry up because the bed was needed. It's acceptable now to send the woman to the postnatal ward without the baby being fed properly, thinking the staff there will sort it. We're also shown lovely videos about the instinctive crawl to the breast babies will do and it is amazing. Very rarely do we see that in reality because of the practices above. They're teaching us breastfeeding support for the ideal birth, not for the reality of a hospital nhs birth where you might have had a c-section or 3rd degree tear so need to go to theatre.

As for the breastfeeding support midwife, she's great when she's actually there. But she seems to just flit in at random times for an hour or 2 then disappears again. She's not a big presence on the ward, which I think she should be. Most of the time when I've called her to ask for help she's busy.

I work on postnatal ward, can sometimes look after up to 10 people. We're often short staffed. Good breastfeeding support takes a long time and I can try my best and there's only so much I can do before needing to go to help someone else. Again, there's pressure to get people out, as beds are needed. I know midwives who hate working there and I'm sure that attitude doesn't help. I enjoy it but I find breastfeeding support hard work sometimes.

I think another factor is how we live now. In the old days, you'd have your mum just up the road for help and if from a large family you'd grow up seeing breastfeeding. So many women now are brilliantly educated but actually have very little knowledge of their own bodies, in terms of breastfeeding, how labour works etc. in my breastfeeding training I was asked to draw the inside anatomy of a breast, and I'll be honest, I was pretty stumped. If I don't know, then most women won't either. That coupled with growing up without seeing breastfeeding, no experience with babies and very little support and an emphasis on routines for babies even at a young age, sleep deprivation then it's no wonder so many give up. What I find sad is how many women will tell you they don't have enough milk. Now, I know that is the case for a lot of women but the majority of cases are because their breasts haven't been stimulated enough in the early stages. Your body can stop producing as much milk surprisingly quickly. But women are saying this to me when they've barely even fed the baby for the first time and it's their first. I don't know if it's because they know others who had bad experiences, or they had a traumatic labour so they feel this won't work either. Just seems like so many women don't trust their body's ability to feed their baby at all. I'm not saying all you have to do is chant, say some affirmations and baby will latch but I just wonder if going into it straight away thinking you don't have enough milk then it's not going to help.

Also, drugs in labour have an effect. Pethidine, epidurals are debateable. And babies have to learn to. Even I find it very frustrating when a baby will lick a nipple a few times then fall asleep or root around for ages thn get so frustrated they start screaming and then won't feed consequently. And I think JUST SUCK for god's sake. But it's a learning process for both of you.

I hate this mummy war. Why is it that women get chastised for choosing how to feed their child yet dads are treated like heros if they manage to bung some chips in the oven. I'm exaggerating but I do think we have a culture where women chastise themselves.

Also, I wonder if we intellectualise it too much. Having all these classes for everything. Don't get me wrong, some of the info is useful and I actually enjoy doing classes but a baby doesn't follow what the classes say. I do roll my eyes a bit at the practising with dolls. Ha, if only it was that simple! But I've known a few African women who find the idea of going to a breastfeeding class very odd. Like going to a class to learn how to have sex (although I guess sex education is going that way as well what with practising putting condoms on cucumbers).

Anyway, this is a very long winded way of saying that if you can, pay a lactation consultant. My sister's midwives spent ages faffing about using nipple shields for her to sort out her cracked nipples when in one afternoon they sorted the latch out, problem solved. And midwives aren't always great at spotting tongue ties. I haven't had any formal teaching about what a tongue tie looks like. Lactation consultants on the wards would be so useful but it would cost too much money. Or to have midwives with lactation consultant training. Is too much money again.

MLGs · 27/08/2016 15:26

Totally agree that actual support miles more important than just harraning women about it.

Also, public awareness to make sure no one thinks it's unacceptable in public. Educating partners about how they can support breastfeeding is another good one.

Andcake · 27/08/2016 15:42

More money to support ...horrid the experience with ds had really wanted to bf....ds refused to feed breastfeeding council ears at all sorts of places just seemed to to tell me the same things over( which I had tried then some other person would offer the same useless advice) and grab my boobs - patronise ....still feel like a failure years later.
Many mothers try but the drop off by 6 weeks is incredible...I exclusively pumped for 6 months leaving me house bound

minifingerz · 27/08/2016 16:31

Basically everything golden says.

With bells on.

It's heartbreaking.

And it doesn't help that there's such a loud chorus of voices insisting it doesn't matter how a baby is fed, that the research shows nothing, that as long as a baby is fed yada yada. If it doesn't really matter then there is no argument for spending money on supporting it. :-(

mirime · 27/08/2016 18:17

At the NHS antenatal class we were told formula was made from fish semen and that solvents were used in its manufacture.

Nearly made me change my mind and decide to formula feed!

Then after having ds, him being rushed to SCBU, while I went to theatre to be stitched up, then spending the night apart the SCBU nurse was a complete cow, had a go at me because I hadn't expressed overnight (no one mentioned it, I was in no fit state to think of it on my own), and when I tried to feed him she kept telling me I was doing it wrong and made me hold him a different way that I didn't find comfortable and just seemed to have decided I was incompetent.

The midwives on the ward were a lot more helpful, as were the posters showing different ways of holding the baby to feed - including the way I'd wanted to try and had thought was normal anyway. All started to go a bit better then, and I ended up breast feeding for 14 months, when ds decided to stop.

SheepOrWine · 27/08/2016 19:10

golden thanks so much for that post. That's really interesting. I recognise so much of what you said from my own experience three months ago (and I was in a London hospital too - maybe it's yours?!) My DH was absolutely horrified at my experience in the postnatal ward, I think he was more shocked from that than the birth!

A question for you - I often think back to the incorrect information I was given on the postnatal ward and it does make me quite angry. I do understand that HCPs are incredibly overstretched but they should at least be able to give accurate advice when needed. The worst was the dr I mentioned up thread who recommended waiting three hours before feeding as "babies feed better when they're screaming hungry", plus a midwife who told me it wasn't a problem if DD hadn't had a dirty nappy in over 24 hours. There are plenty of other examples too but those are the worst ones. Would it be worth me politely writing to the hospital to try and ensure that other women aren't given wrong information like this? Or would it just get lost in a back office somewhere and never reach the ward staff?

Also - once I made it out to a breastfeeding group in week 2 (by which point DD was already 50% formula fed) I was told by the lady there that the fact I lost two litres of blood after delivery and was very anaemic even after two blood transfusions would likely have affected my milk supply. Is this just an old wives tale or does the NHS recognise that this can happen? If so, why did nobody mention it?

OP posts:
AllegraAlmond · 27/08/2016 19:41

But BF is best. We have one of the poorest rates of BF in the world. I was reading DS a storybook last night and even the animals were feeding their young with bottles Hmm The reality is most women can't actually be bothered to go through the effort of the early weeks in order to establish a good breast feeding routine. Only 5% of women can't actually BF, though you wouldn't believe it. Rather then expecting an overstretchee NHS to gix the issues perhaps people should take responsibility for themselves and do their own research on how to mae BF work.

BertieBotts · 27/08/2016 19:58

YYY Golden.

Allegra your attitude is victim blaming and ignores the very real problems. Read Golden's post. It's REALLY not lack of effort by women which is the problem.

PersianCatLady · 27/08/2016 19:59

When I gave birth three months ago the hospital had a rule that they would not provide you with formula, you had to bring your own
That is absolutely appalling.

So for what ever reason if you cannot BF after birth, you have to beg the nurses for food for your baby. Absolutely appalling.

Maybebabybee · 27/08/2016 20:06

allegra

You're part of the problem love.

Doggity · 27/08/2016 20:13

minifingerz I've been on MN for years and noticed that you appear on all these threads with apparent sadness about the breastfeeding rates in the UK. Yet, I've never seen you actually give any support towards women on these threads. Do you really think that faux sadness from a stranger and quoting stats is the way to get more women breastfeeding for longer periods? You say it's what you think is important, yet your actions suggest otherwise.

I, too, would like to see more support during the early stages. I would also like more information on the safety of certain medications. Many women live with serious illness and choose not to breastfeed because they take serious medications and they don't get the education about safety.

TheHubblesWindscreenWipers · 27/08/2016 20:20

allegra

population level statistics!! breast is best on a population level. The individual may find that breast, formula or a mix of the two are best for her.

I was determined to BF. I'm an intelligent woman (scientist, several degrees) so research wasn't an issue. I still struggled. Horribly. It was agonisingly painful. He didn't latch well, the support was shit.

That figure of 5% is women who cannot BF at all for physiological reasons. It doesn't include women like me who technically could but in reality found it pretty grim.
In the end it just sort of got better. We never found out why. So I breastfed him and I'm still feeding him.
But if I'd have decided 'nope, this isn't working for us' then that would have been a perfectly valid choice.

Encourage women to BF via positive means. Better support, normalising it on tv etc. Not by yelling 'breast is best! Bottle is evil!) at them.

I knew at the stats. I read the papers. I was still stuck at 3am with a hungry baby who just couldn't get enough. Research is theoretical. Hands on support is needed, not posters.

And it's utterly disgusting that a woman struggling to feed would need to beg for formula and face opprobrium on the postnatal ward. Utterly disgusting.

PersianCatLady · 27/08/2016 20:25

AllegraAlmond
You are not endearing people to come round to your way of thinking by making comments like that.

AllegraAlmond · 27/08/2016 20:35

Victim blaming? But it is there fault if they don't help themselves and instead rely on others to figure it all out for them. I really don't see why expecting mothers who want to take control of breastfeeding can't do a bit of research on their own behalf. I have BF and FF, and BF didn't come easy, but rather than throwing in the towel I persevered as I'd previously researched what to expect and what problems I may encounter as I believe in actually helping myself. Sorry I'm not going to feel sorry for people who want to blame everyone else under the sun for the fact they couldn't BF.

Maybebabybee · 27/08/2016 20:37

And if they just don't want to BF Allegra? Or if the difficulties they experience are stopping them bonding?

Many women don't encounter "difficulties", they just don't like it.

motherducker · 27/08/2016 20:39

Excellent post from golden.

Look if a woman doesn't want to breastfeed, that's fine, her body her choice. Whatever her reasons it's fine. We all do a lot of things that are not necessarily scientifically "the best" for our children (at least I know I do).

But when women WANT to breastfeed, not just because of the health benefits but because emotionally they want to do it, then it's very sad that the support isn't there in the early stages.

I also think mix feeding should be considered more and that "nipple confusion" is a myth but perhaps that's for another thread .

Maybebabybee · 27/08/2016 20:40

I don't think anyone is arguing women who want to BF shouldn't be supported.

Maybebabybee · 27/08/2016 20:41

I agree nipple confusion is bollocks.

AllegraAlmond · 27/08/2016 20:42

Not wanting to and so not doing so is different from wanting to but not putting in the effort to actually overcome common problems which is my point. People can do what they want, but many protest that they just tried so hard, when in fact, they didn't try at all.

TheHubblesWindscreenWipers · 27/08/2016 20:45

Nipple confusion my arse.... I don't believe in it (harrumph...) they suck reflexively up to several weeks old.

PersianCatLady · 27/08/2016 20:45

I don't think anyone is arguing women who want to BF shouldn't be supported
I think that AllegraAlmond is overly supportive of them by saying this - "But it is there fault if they don't help themselves and instead rely on others to figure it all out for them"