AIBU to think being a SAHP to a six-month-old baby and under five is harder than most jobs?

[TheOddity]

I don't know many people in jobs with a schedule or level of stress like that of a woman on mat leave in school holidays.
My morning, just from 7am to 10am:
Get up by being jumped on, immediately change sodden nappy.
Nappy in nappy bucket
Get four breakfasts ready while entertaining baby and answering questions/4yo stream of consciousness.
Try to find safe place for crawling baby while I wash up. Make den for 4yo.
Wash up, clean high chair, dustpan floor (weaning), wipe floor (crawling).
Hear a cry, sort out teddy stand off.
Put washing on. Spill powder, clean floor
Clean toilet and floor (baby crawls everywhere in a flat).
Baby grumpy and crying and falling all over fighting sleep. Put to sleep while trying to mentally plan lunch.
Finish washing up, have five second shower. Baby wakes distraught (teething). Feed baby while still wet and naked. Won't go back asleep after tiny nap.
Take nappy off again as soaked through and messy from breakfast. Give her some nappy free time.
Encourage toddler to take clothes off to get dressed.
Toddler needs a poo. Juggle wiping bum while baby tries to crawl closer from other room (can't put in cot as she just breaks down. separation anxiety?!)
Baby crying as after two days the nappy free trick has worked and they have done a massive poo on the floor and are now squirming in it. Leave toddler playing in sink while I sort out 'poonami'
'Poonami' sorted, baby back with nappy. Find toddler has flooded floor with water. Wipe up water while listening to baby crying in other room.
Baby dying to finish nap, put in sling while I encourage 4yo to dress. Go downstairs to throw poo and rubbish out. Baby finally asleep in sling.
Share woes with mumsnet while 4yo watches god knows what on TV.
That is three hours. It is totally relentless. And that is just me keeping things how they were before we woke up, no extra cleaning, no shopping, no trips. We go out lots but those bits you have to do at home and getting ready are soooo much harder than my paid job before. Dh then comes home to tell me he is so tired. I breastfeed and do all night feeds.

I was a SAHP for years. Now I work full time. They're both hard in different ways and I really can't be arsed with the 'my life is harder than yours' crap, its uneccessary and unsupportive of others.

I now work full time and have two children, one with a life limiting condition that is at the forefront of my thoughts every second of every day, including when I'm up at 2am and 4am and any other time of the night to make sure she's still breathing. Then I go to work. Is it stressful? Too fucking right it is, but there will be others out there who have it MUCH worse and MUCH more stressful. We all done what gets us through.

Catrabbit31 I completely agree that is a discussion worth having.

I wonder if the take-up is so low becasue while women want more equality with men and dad's to have a more hands on role, they don't want it at the expense of their own time iyswim. I'm on maternity now and whilst I would have loved dp to have some time off i, very selfishly I'll admit, didn't want to sacrifice any of my time off. We have agreed that for next child we'll be more prepared and save more so we can afford for dp to take some unpaid time off.

My OH took 2 days off with each child because it would have meant "redundancy" otherwise.
Paternity leave is frowned upon by many employers. Just about tolerated with women ( and they have to expect the usual career progression restraints) but for men I think it's still a mostly no go area.

I think employers feel that a man who takes paternity leave is less likely to put his job first, he will duck out of unexpected late working, or business trips, or may take days off work when kids are ill.

My job is also much harder than being at home with the kids. I'm an academic in a highly competitive department in a Russell Group Uni ( not a boast just setting the picture of the immense pressure on all staff to retain our status).

I'm managing 3 multi million pound grants which require me managing 3 different teams, as well as dealing with collaborators in other parts of the country and, in one case, I'm another country. I am currently writing 5 papers and 4 different reports as well as planning next terms lectures.

I am also responsible for recruiting GP practices and other sites to the studies and that involves visiting up to 20 sites per week.

On top of that I have the usual admin stuff to contend with. I also travel frequently to meetings and conferences abroad - and no, it's not a jolly, it's hard work.

Staying at home with kids. Piece of piss.

In fact I find my current job easier than what I was doing before I had kids - mixture of working in academia, working as a senior manager in the NHS and also working as a practice manager. I was putting in 16 HR days most weeks. These days I average 10-12 hours plus an hours commute.

I can sympathise with you having a tough day, every day. I think all parents can.
I find it difficult to sympathise when you are implying that your day is tougher than anyone else's/most other people's.

User- sounds like your dh had a good case against his employer if he was actually denied his right to paternity leave.

By the way- I'm not saying things are perfect. But I stand by my point that things are better now than ever before. My dh had the days each of our 3 children were born off. Nothing more. And I was back at work when dd1 was 12 weeks. Dh had no automatic right to request flexible working (as all parents have now.)

In an ideal world, exercising your rights wouldn't lead to being disadvantaged in the workplace, and it's wrong if splitting parental leave does (though from what I understand, if parents take 6 months leave each, they both retain their right to return to their exact same role, on the same level so I'm not convinced it's career suicide. In fact arguably it's better than the mother taking a whole year, because her employer could restructure and offer an equivalent, but not the same, role.)

If couples really want equality, then hopefully we'll see more dads taking advantage of legislation- and more mums supporting them to do just that.

I personally would say I find being a SAHP hard. Not because of the practical abilities of parenting to me they are easier than any job I've ever had. But what I find really difficult is I never get to go home... Because i am home. Even when my partner is on kid duty I am still some how on duty also (always a washing to hang up, big chicken to shove in an oven). And I think that is harder than most jobs. Never being off. Imagine working in Tesco 24/7 never leaving because something always needed done? Or being a full time teacher?! You would burn out. But somehow it's not acceptable to say parenting is a full time job. When literally it's more "full time" than any other "full time job"

While men have a right to paternity leave for many is is career suicide- on a par as women taking maternity leave.

Am I missing something? Why is this an acceptable risk for women to take but the idea of tanking a man's career is just unthinkable?

user147- your job sounds almost identical to my dp's- he thinks it would be harder to be at home with our 1 and 2 year olds!

catrabbit dp was asked if he would be using shared parental leave when I was pregnant, he said no, just paternity and some annual leave, the woman in hr said good as she still didn't know how to arrange it since not one man had ever taken it up. This is at a Uni so big employer. Since then a colleague has actually used shared leave and the general assumption is that he must have a other job lined up/be on his way out one way or another.

I think perhaps it's more that some people think since taking at least a little ML is inevitable for most women, even if only a few weeks, you might as well not impact two careers when you could confine it to one. That's not the approach DH and I have taken, but I see the logic to it in some circumstances.

It sounds insanely stressful. And I definitely think that the working parents always believed that they have more of a right/reason to be exhausted than the parent who stays at home (and in most cases, completely unreasonably).

I'm a single mum and was at home with my DDs for the full first year but I had a lot of help (a steady stream of aunts, siblings, nieces, parents, grandparents, friends, etc dropping in to do a load of washing or change a nappy or just help out in any way) and I don't think I would have coped without it. I would love to be a SAHP, I know it would be incredibly difficult but spending that amount of uninterrupted time with my girls would be heavenly. I know it's stressful for you, but don't forget how lucky you are OP. I'm currently studying for my degree while also working part-time as a waitress and freelance photographer and writer (and a mum of course) and I'm stressed to the point where I think my brain may explode sometimes. In 9 months though, I'll have finished my degree and my DDs will be getting ready to start school and things will probably still be just as stressful but for all different reasons.

Sorry that was to zeezeek not user147

Catrabbit I think you have to be realistic- the law only protects you up some extent- if you're sacked illegally you do have legal recourse (if you have the money and guts) but that will get you a (generally small) amount of compensation and possibly a reference. It doesn't reverse the dismissal and you've still lost your job. You can see why people are worried about risking it.

To be honest though if staying at home is that hard and stressful and working is that easy just get a fucking job. Don't be a maytr about it

I'll tell you what was lovely, and super stress free.

Once when DD (DC1) was preschool, I had a week's work near my lovely parents. I took DD with me, and they looked after her while I worked. I got myself dress in the morning (admittedly early) and drove off to work. Worked a full day. Then I drove home. When I got back dinner was made. I didn't have to worry about any housework, shopping etc. All I had to do was read DD her bedtime stories and put her to bed at night, settle her if she woke in the night and perhaps load the dishwasher after meals etc. They had everything else under control.

THAT WAS SUCH AN EASY LIFE MAN!!!!

Oh wait, that is the life of a sole breadwinner in most families up until recent years. And up until quite recently my job would have paid well enough to fund that (because of government cuts it doesn't pay so well now - I admit there are stresses to being sole breadwinner that aren't accounted for there, but the job I do is one that should be able to support a family including another adult, so not wholly unrealistic).

Both my DH and I tell each other we go to work for a rest! We both work part time and share childcare, so we both get what caring for a child day in day out is really like...

Hyacinth- if you and your partner have discussed it and made a joint decision to impact one career rather than possibly both, then that's a valid choice. The point is, you've discussed it and come to a mutual agreement. And it could be the mum or the dad who decides to take the career hit.

My point was that just 20 or so years ago there wasnt that choice. Even if we had decided that dh would make the better parent to take more leave, that option wasn't available to us. The leave was very short and had to be taken by the mother.

I'm on mat leave at the moment, have a 4 year old and 6 month old. I can't wait to go back to work! Admittedly it's only for 3 days a week, but I really couldn't be at home with my kids all the time! Not only do they drive me mad, for all the reasons you list in you OP, but I need something which is about me and not just my kids. I need to leave to house, and go somewhere which isn't for the kids, have a cup of tea and drink it while it's still hot, without a child pulling at my leg, have a wee in peace, for gods sake!
I also really like my job, which helps. Im genuinely in awe of SAHP's, I don't know how you do it!
Hats off to you OP, sounds like you're doing a bloody sterling and very hard job

You are lucky to be able to stay at home with your children, I have to go to work to provide for my 9 month old, count your blessings

It's more the fact you don't get a break from being Mum, whereas you do with work.

It also depends a lot on your DC.

DD(3) is amazing but doesn't like to play on her own and doesn't like the word no so can be quite stressful sometimes.
My DD2(6m) does not like being put down a lot at the moment as she's sore with teething, plus EBF and co-sleeps as she refuses to sleep in cot.
So put them all together it can be pretty hectic!

It couldn't be the mum or dad who decides to take the career hit catrabbit because the mother almost always needs to take at least some leave due to biological factors. And there are some jobs in which any leave at all would mark your card. That's the problem: if you're in that kind of role, the decision isn't who takes the career hit, it's about whether one of you or both of you should, because biology means the woman will. I appreciate that there are a few women who are fine to work until the first contraction starts and then be back in the office the next day, but I think they're sufficiently rare not to need more than a footnote in the discussion.

Parenting is definitely challenging - especially when they are .
But I'd be very careful before saying it's MORE challenging than any particular job. Especially when a lot of parents have to do ALL the things you've stated in your post on top of their jobs.
My personal situation: 3.5 yo twins who have NEVER (maybe 1 or 2 consecutive nights in all their lives) both slept through. We both work. We both clean a lot of poo. Our house is not a place I'd like to invite visitors ... you get the idea.

I kinda feel you're fairly luck and hella unreasonable.
YABU.

For me, here's my order, from easiest to hardest of my adult life:

1. Mat leave with 1 x newborn
2. Working full time no kids
3. Sahm to 3 year old with 15 hours childcare plus 5 year old
4. Part time work plus sahp to school age dc
5. Full time work with 1&3 year old in nursery.

I don't really think anyone can say if either way is harder or not however I do think that the difficulty of being a SAHP is often underestimated.
I'm a SAHP (dislike that term though, not even sure why!) to a 4 month old and 4 year old and there have been so many comments made to me basically implying that I'm lazy and that it's some kind of 'luxury'. That really pisses me off. Taking care of and entertaining young children all day long on a daily basis is not easy, it can be physically and mentally exhausting. And thats without trying to squeeze in housework/cooking etc. And in our case it certainly isn't a luxury. DP works to pay the bills and mortgage for our tiny house. We don't have holidays (did have 5 days self-catering at Butlins this year - woo!) and we have one old car. If I'd gone back to work my wages would've all gone on childcare - making it rather pointless. So thats our situation and I find it bloody hard work. But then I'm sure working parents must find it hard to fit everything in alongside their jobs.

Hyacinth- I hear you, but I still think you're missing the point that there is far greater choice and flexibility these days. There is a massive spectrum between taking the minimum (2 week) requirement for leave which is only available to the mother, and the mother then entirely sacrificing her career by giving it up, or taking an entire year off. There's the option for her to go back to work at 3 months, 6 months, 9 months.... Or indeed for her partner to request flexible working. It's simply not true to suggest that rights are only the same as they were 20 years ago- believe me, if you'd had kids in the early 1990s you'd be chewing your arm off for the parental rights of today!

If a couple want to still go by traditional roles and the woman takes the full career hit, that's up to them, but I think they should be honest about it and acknowledge that they are choosing it because it's what they want. I have a couple of colleagues currently on ML and they are choosing to take off the entire year- which of course is their right, but I wouldn't have a great deal of sympathy if they moaned about being at home or complained that their partner has the easy option, when they have passed up their right to transfer some of that leave to him

Yeah I have no comment to make on how things are now in comparison to the 90s, I was a child then, I'm only discussing how things are now. And since at present there are some jobs where taking any sort of leave at all would be a problem, and most women will need at least a bit for biological reasons, it's not accurate to say the couple in that scenario can choose who takes the hit. Because the woman is going to take one regardless. The availability of transferrable leave, flexible working etc simply means they get to choose whether one or both of them does. As I said, it's not how DH and I did things and personally I don't think my career has suffered from ML because I like moving around, but it very clearly is a problem for some people.